zombieslayer
15 years ago
I didn't want to hijack Porforis' thread so I started a new one.

We really need a National Sales Tax. Seriously, screw the IRS. It shouldn't exist. NOBODY except for you and your employer (and your Mom) should know how much money you make and what you spend it on. It's a privacy issue mostly.

Also though, besides just privacy, things like what happened to Porforis shouldn't happen. I feel really bad. He's now in paperwork hell. I've heard others go through similar experiences. I had a correction once and it cost me $200. Not a large amount of money but it's out of general principle. A waste of time and money.

So instead of the IRS, what do you all think of a National Sales Tax? It's a consumption tax. I've heard folks say it hurts the poor but food is exempt. Also, the more money you make, the more you end up spending anyways. No system is fair. Heck, I could go on and on about how unfair our current system is, how it screws over Californians and New Yorkers and rewards people in more inexpensive states.

So much time would be saved. So much less hassle. So much more privacy. Imagine the paperwork saved.

Discuss.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Pack93z
15 years ago
It is gaining momentum ... Washington Post article about talks on the hill ..

I think the hidden benefit of it all.. is that it will encourage people to save more.. thus creating less of the "dangerous" spender that live beyond their mean.

Of course those in government would find a way to offset the benefits with some type of spending.

A VAT's Bottom Line

What would it cost? Emanuel argues in his book that a 10 percent VAT would pay for every American not entitled to Medicare or Medicaid to enroll in a health plan with no deductibles and minimal copayments. In his 2008 book, "100 Million Unnecessary Returns," Yale law professor Michael J. Graetz estimates that a VAT of 10 to 14 percent would raise enough money to exempt families earning less than $100,000 -- about 90 percent of households -- from the income tax and would lower rates for everyone else.

And in a paper published last month in the Virginia Tax Review, Burman suggests that a 25 percent VAT could do it all: Pay for health-care reform, balance the federal budget and exempt millions of families from the income tax while slashing the top rate to 25 percent. A gallon of milk would jump from $3.69 to $4.61, and a $5,000 bathroom renovation would suddenly cost $6,250, but the nation's debt would stabilize and everybody could see a doctor.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Yeah, but is that a VAT in lieu of all the other taxes we're paying or a VAT on top of them?
UserPostedImage
Porforis
15 years ago
But... But... What about all these rich bankers/insurance company CEOs/Oil tycoons that everyone loves to bash that don't spend that much of their money on taxable goods?

Seriously though, would there still be capital gains taxes? A flat sales tax would be simpler, but I just don't see it happening.
Porforis
15 years ago

It is gaining momentum ... Washington Post article about talks on the hill ..

I think the hidden benefit of it all.. is that it will encourage people to save more.. thus creating less of the "dangerous" spender that live beyond their mean.

Of course those in government would find a way to offset the benefits with some type of spending.

A VAT's Bottom Line

What would it cost? Emanuel argues in his book that a 10 percent VAT would pay for every American not entitled to Medicare or Medicaid to enroll in a health plan with no deductibles and minimal copayments. In his 2008 book, "100 Million Unnecessary Returns," Yale law professor Michael J. Graetz estimates that a VAT of 10 to 14 percent would raise enough money to exempt families earning less than $100,000 -- about 90 percent of households -- from the income tax and would lower rates for everyone else.

And in a paper published last month in the Virginia Tax Review, Burman suggests that a 25 percent VAT could do it all: Pay for health-care reform, balance the federal budget and exempt millions of families from the income tax while slashing the top rate to 25 percent. A gallon of milk would jump from $3.69 to $4.61, and a $5,000 bathroom renovation would suddenly cost $6,250, but the nation's debt would stabilize and everybody could see a doctor.

"pack93z" wrote:



Ugh... The last person in the world I'd trust is Rahm Emanuel or his brother... What a snake. Also, there's a difference between health coverage and health care - just because the government is paying for health insurance doesn't mean you'll be able to see a doctor, now, and with good quality care. This is why simply having the government take over the health care industry isn't going to fix things. I like the basic premise of having a flat sales tax, but I simply don't trust the government to implement it in a way that is efficient or fair.
Formo
15 years ago
Fair tax. I like your thinking, ZS.

You say people claim it wouldn't be fair to the poor. Uhh. A) Life's not fair and 😎 it IS fair. They pay taxes based on how much they spend. Because they are poor, they don't spend much. Because they don't spend much, they don't pay as much.

On the flip side, you have the millionare types. They are going to buy houses, cars, etc. Guess what? They will pay the same % as everyone else, but they'll still be paying more in. They like it because it's fair. We like it because they are still 'funding' the system.

I don't see any downfall to a Fair Tax-type system, except it takes money away from our politicians pockets. Thus, why we'll never see something like it.
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
TheEngineer
15 years ago
We recently (2000) had the introduction of a VAT tax, known as Goods and Services Tax in Australia, on top of normal income tax and other statutory taxes such as Medicare, CGT, fringe benefits etc.

I really do not think it would work on its own. Some sort of income tax is typically essential as they are progressive taxes which have the effect of taxing rich people more. A flat tax such as VAT tends to work regressively, since people with high income are taxed less for any given item. They definitely earn more but that does not mean they definitely spend more.

Secondly, with any taxation, regulatory and enforcement bodies are required to ensure the correct monitoring and enforcement of taxation. Yes, there are a lot of costs associated with that, and many hours wasted. The IRS would still be required for monitoring company taxation, anyway.

Additionally, consumption is, if I recall correctly, an important statistical figure for economics, and introducing something that will retard spending isn't something to be taken lightly.

Yes, the whole tax system is overly complicated and a massive burden on an individual. I just hope eventually we do away with needlessly complex taxation laws and move towards streamlining the measurement and payment of tax.
blank
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
The U.S. Constitution mandates an amazingly streamlined form of taxation -- apportionment by state -- but we've gone and royally screwed it up.

Unfortunately, I'm packing for a weeklong drill -- blah -- so I don't have time to write a treatise on this topic. I definitely want to, though.
UserPostedImage
Formo
15 years ago

The U.S. Constitution mandates an amazingly streamlined form of taxation -- apportionment by state -- but we've gone and royally screwed it up.

Unfortunately, I'm packing for a weeklong drill -- blah -- so I don't have time to write a treatise on this topic. I definitely want to, though.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Damnit. Have fun. I want to see a 2 page report on this topic when you return.
UserPostedImage
Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
Two questions:

1. We trust the "guvmint" to administer a sales tax more than we trust it to administer an "income tax" because...?

2. A sales tax will encourage government responsibility how?

I have no trouble with abolishing the IRS. Or the income tax. Or both.

But I fail to see how giving to more taxing ability who have shown they have zero financial responsibility makes any sense at all.

I might be bankrupt. But I'm supposed to trust Charles Ponzi to get me out of bankruptcy.

Taxes do not solve problems. Taxes merely shift who pays for them.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Fan Shout
beast (6h) : What is he supposed to say? He doesn't want players currently on the team?
Martha Careful (10h) : meh
Zero2Cool (14h) : Sounds like Walker and Wyatt will be with Packers for beyond 2026
Zero2Cool (14h) : It's so awesome.
Zero2Cool (14h) : new site fan shout post fast
wpr (18h) : Slow posting in Fan shout.
wpr (18h) : Only 4
wpr (18h) : Only 4
Zero2Cool (20h) : If only we had a topic to read about and discuss it. That's something new website must have!!!
dfosterf (21h) : Justice Musqueda over at Acme Packing put up an excellent synopsis of the Packers 1st round options this am
wpr (19-Apr) : 5 days
beast (18-Apr) : 6 days
wpr (17-Apr) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

17-Apr / Random Babble / wpr

16-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

13-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

12-Apr / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

11-Apr / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Rockmolder

2-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

2-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

1-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

1-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

31-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

30-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

29-Mar / Random Babble / wpr

28-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

26-Mar / Random Babble / Mucky Tundra

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.