Discussion Board
Zero2Cool
2022-05-25T12:11:06Z
1999 Columbine, CO → Two 18 year olds killed 12 high school students and one adult. Weapons used were bought illegally.
2012 Newton, CT → 20 year old killed 20 children and six adults in an elementary school. Weapons used were legally owned by killers mother, who also killed.
2022 Uvalde, TX → 18 year old killed 19 children and two adults in an elementary school. Weapons were legally owned by gunman.

These are the three that stick out most to me in my memory. I am sure there are more. I saw on Tweeter last night how a plethora of fake magnanimous people demanding for change and of course giving their pathetically weak phony "thoughts and prayers" as they prop themselves on their fictitious "look at me" pedestal. None of those grieving are scouring Tweeter or social media for sympathy so who are those comments for? They are or their own selfish narcissistic selves.

I honestly do not think there is anything that can or will change. After Sandy Hook and nothing was done, I fell into the defeated mentality that this is just going to always be a part of life. Some will say more gun control, but that is not the solution. Yeah, sure, it worked for Australia after the Port Arthur massacre, but the culture differences between America and Australia are massive. America has a population over 330 million and we have over 400 million firearms. Australia has a population around 30 million and less than half million firearms. So when they say strict gun control worked for Australia, no shit it did. They didn't have over one fire arm per person to recover!

An argument that I think shows how ignorant some people are ... when a car rams into a populus of people they say "we gonna ban cars now", you know, because a car's creational purpose is MURDER, wait, that's the creational intent of a FIREARM. We hear the same weak remark about knives.

Columbine I was in High School. Sandy Hook I had three girls in three tiers of schooling. Uvalde I have one girl in elementary school. As a parent, I have no idea what to do other than hope people smarter than me come up with a solution. As an American citizen, I'm disgusted we aren't doing more. A bit hypocritical as I have no idea what more could be done. They say to arm the teachers. Yeah, that's intelligent. You're putting a loaded weapon in every classroom then and hoping that EACH AND EVERY teacher is practicing proper gun safety.

I don't know. I just do not know.
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Cheesey
2022-05-25T16:28:35Z
Zero, you made some great points.
Guns are not the problem. Bad people are the problem.
Stricter gun control laws are not the answer. Who would obey stricter gun control laws? Only law abiding citizens. Not one single bad person would give a damn about another law. They already don't care about any law. And the black market will always be there for bad people with $50 in their pocket who want a gun.
What do I see as the major problem today? It's the whole attitude of "YOU are SPECIAL! YOU matter!" Giving a false sense to kids that they are special, when fact is, not everyone is that special.
Giving "participation trophies" to kids just for showing up. Not keeping score at sports because losing a game might hurt poor Johnny's feelings if he has to face that he sucks at sports. Trophies have to be EARNED. It takes hard work to excel at anything. Kids are not taught to respect others. To do unto others as you would have them do unto you. So what we see now is the results of years of not holding people responsible for their actions. We have raised a "Me FIRST" country of entitled people.
"Don't DARE diss me! I'm SPECIAL and only what I want matters!"
It's a total moral decay of what America used to stand for.
It started in the 1960s with the "If it feels good, do it" motto, not caring how it might hurt others, to the 1972 decision to allow people to murder their unwanted "fetus" (child).
When human life doesn't matter, anything goes!
Yes, I hear the "it's a woman's right to do what she wants with her body!" Problem is, it's not HER body she's killing, it's a innocent baby.
Again, it comes down to not holding people responsible for their actions. "Go ahead and have sex! If you get pregnant, just kill the problem!" The "if it feels good, do it" that I talked about earlier. And the men are JUST as responsible for it
These are my feelings on the problem. I know there will be those here that will hate me for saying these things, and some that will agree but won't dare to say so for fear of being blasted.

All that is necessary for evil to win is for good people to do nothing.
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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Zero2Cool
2022-05-25T19:47:54Z
Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

Zero, you made some great points.

Guns are not the problem. Bad people are the problem.

Stricter gun control laws are not the answer. Who would obey stricter gun control laws? Only law abiding citizens. Not one single bad person would give a damn about another law. They already don't care about any law. And the black market will always be there for bad people with $50 in their pocket who want a gun.
What do I see as the major problem today? It's the whole attitude of "YOU are SPECIAL! YOU matter!" Giving a false sense to kids that they are special, when fact is, not everyone is that special.



Guns are not the problem, but the ease of obtaining one is a problem. However, you'll note that two of the three I listed the weapons were obtained legally. So, maybe stricter gun purchasing laws could help reduce the firearm violence.

Australia banned guns, period. They just banned them. I'm not sure if it's every gun, but a good majority are banned. You speak of the black market. You have to realize that the black market will be marginalized and once supply and demand change, you will NOT be able to buy a gun for $50. That $50 gun today will be $5,000 after guns are abolished. This has been proven in Australia and by basic economics.

I am not saying abolishing every gun that holds more than 12 rounds is the only answer, or the only solution, or even THE answer/solution. Because if some idiot wants to harm people, they will find a way, even if it's by a knife like the Osaka massacre that left 8 children dead and over a dozen injured.

Do I think civilians should have such easy access to weapons that can shoot 25+ rounds in a clip? No, not really. If you're that bad at hunting animals, you should pick up a different hobby. I've heard the argument about the Revolutionary War so many times and it's so obvious how many people failed history class. We wouldn't be fighting muskets vs muskets. We would be fighting semi-automatic weapons vs drones, tanks, planes and a ton of other wicked nasty stuff.

I guess to sum up this rambling here. I don't think less guns is the solution. I know more guns is NOT the solution. I just think we have to do more to be better people. And for god sake, can we stop plastering these tragedies all over the place giving these cowards 15 minutes of "fame"?
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Cheesey
2022-05-25T20:04:35Z
I agree there's no reason to have a 25 round clip. My rifle holds 6 bullets. Like you said, if you can't hit what you are hunting with that, take up a different hobby.
And as I said, and you agree, we need to be better people. And that starts at home AND in the schools. I have seen articles where a kid acts up at school, gets in trouble, then goes home and cry's to the parents. Then the parents try to SUE the school!
If I mouthed off to a teacher, and went home complaining, I would have been in even MORE trouble with my parents!
Australia might have no guns, but they still have violent crime.
And as I have stated elsewhere, criminals LOVE unarmed victims.
The only answer to stop school and other shootings is to change the way we teach people. Start pushing responsibility for your actions.
When I was a child, there were NO school shootings. So you have to look at what has changed. Pretty much what I stated in my previous post.
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dyeah_gb
2022-05-25T22:02:34Z
For many, the tragedy in Texas is unfathomable. The fact that the event exists at all is extremely frightening and it is impossible to understand. Human life is fragile and evil exists. I firmly believe that the best way to prevent any evil event is deterrence through overwhelming strength and vigilance. In these public locations, I would rather the message to these scum was that, if you try to enter this facility to do harm, you will fail and be dead before you get to the first potential victim. Go kill a defenseless kitten or dog instead.

Further, whenever government officials are speaking about stricter gun laws, alarms bells are going off for me. Australia is a recent study of why the second amendment matters. During the COVID hysteria, the government abused the populace and placed them in camps. Some of the cops were bullies and had no qualms about assaulting protesting citizens. Look at the videos of the way China handled their citizens over the last couple months. The correlation of gun removal by the government and mass death in dictatorial countries is extremely predictable. If the will of the people honestly demands the abolishment of guns, then the party supporting this policy has to make the case through sound logic and discourse. Unfortunately, I only see the push being made emotionally during a crisis.

Edit: By the way.. I am not saying that anyone above made any of the claims in my message. This is just my $0.02 as I struggle through understanding a tragedy like this.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
2022-05-26T22:35:30Z
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Cheesey
2022-05-27T02:59:38Z
Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 

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Wow Martha! GREAT POST!
Keeping guns out of the hands of people at the schools that could actually stop a bad person from killing children, what sense does that make?
By the time the police can get there, it's too late.
What's the answer? How about train a few people at each school how to properly handle a gun, and arm them. What would be the argument not to do that? "Oh my! A GUN at the school???" Yes, in the hands of trusted people!
We have seen the alternative. And it ends up with multiple dead or injured innocent people.
What they have done so far has been proven NOT to work.
If I had children, I wouldn't want to send them to a school where there was no protection for my kids.
UserPostedImage
2022-05-27T11:04:06Z
This new information sickens me as much as the deaths of those innocent lives.

How can we defend ourselves without guns (especially the elderly). Posting that schools are in gun-free zones is crazy, Do we expect a criminal to think 'OH there is a sign that says Gun Free Zone, so I will put my gun away, after I just murdered my grandmother.'

What is especially maddening however is when the cops take 12 minutes to get there. Then once they get there, they do nothing other than save their own kids.

THIS IS INSANE.

Schools should be secured. This should be an infrastructure improvement the government should prioritize. Not the BS they fund. AND THIS SHOULD BE DONE BEFORE SENDING MONEY OVERSEAS!!!
Second any teacher, with a background check and training, should be able to carry IN ANY STATE OR US TERRITORY.

Quote:

Uvalde Shooter Fired Gun For 12 Minutes Outside School Before Entering
BY TYLER DURDEN THURSDAY, MAY 26, 2022
HTTPS://WWW.ZEROHEDGE.CO...CHOOL-GUNMAN-INSIDE-HOUR 
Update (1630ET): The gunman who massacred 19 children and two teachers at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas lingered outside for 12 minutes firing shots at people in a funeral home across the street, before scaling a fence onto school grounds where he fired more shots. He then entered the school and barricading himself in a classroom before opening fire, according to the Wall Street Journal.
Victor Escalon, a regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety, said he couldn’t say why no one stopped the deceased gunman, 18 year-old Salvador Ramos, from entering the school during that time Tuesday. Most of the shots Ramos fired came during the first several minutes when he entered the school, Mr. Escalon said.
DPS officials previously said an armed school officer confronted Ramos as he arrived at the school. Mr. Escalon said Thursday that information was incorrect and no one encountered Ramos as he arrived at the school. “There was not an officer readily available and armed,” Mr. Escalon said. -WSJ
Ramos began Tuesday morning shooting his grandmother in the face, then using her truck to drive to the school - crashing it into a ditch at around 11:28 am according to a timeline laid out by Escalon.
* * *
Texas law enforcement officials ignored pleas from distraught parents as a gunman was left alone for up to an hour at a Texas elementary school - killing 19 children and two teachers, before a Border Patrol agent charged into the school and killed the suspect.
"Go in there! Go in there!" women shouted at the police soon after the attack began, according to neighbor Juan Carranza, who told the Associated Press about the parents' efforts to get the police to confront the shooter. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

Minutes earlier, Carranza had watched as Salvador Ramos crashed his truck into a ditch outside the school, grabbed his AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle and shot at two people outside a nearby funeral home who ran away uninjured.
Officials say he “encountered” a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured. -RealClear Politics
One parent, Javier Cazares, whose fourth-grade daughter Jacklyn was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, only to find that police weren't moving in.
"Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to," he said, adding "More could have been done."
"There were five or six of 🇺🇸 fathers, hearing the gunshots, and [police officers] were telling us to move back," he told the Washington Post. "We didn’t care about us. We wanted to storm the building. We were saying, ‘Let’s go’ because that is how worried we were, and we wanted to get our babies out."
One clip shows officers tackling parents outside the school to prevent them from rushing in. However, the precise timeline of the below videos compared to what was happening inside the school remains unclear...
That said, it now appears as if several cops may have entered the school to save their own children while the shooting was unfolding and the parents were being held back.
After Ramos entered the school, he charged into one classroom and began to open fire. According to Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety, he "barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom."
According to Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw, it took between 40 minutes and 1 hour from when Ramos began opening fire to when the CBP agent, backed by his tactical team, shot him.
Two Uvalde police officers were among the first on the scene - engaging the shooter after he had entered the building when they were both shot and injured.
"When the cops came, the cop said: ‘Yell if you need help!’ And one of the persons in my class said ‘help.’ The [shooter] overheard and he came in and shot her," a boy who hid under a table in his classroom told KENS5 news. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting."
Of note, in the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School in Colorado, police waited outside the school and didn’t enter until almost two hours after Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold started shooting—and an hour after they’d committed suicide. In the meantime, they killed a dozen students and a teacher.
Columbine shocked the nation and marked a shift in tactical philosophy: Police officers are now expected to enter buildings with active shooters as rapidly as possible, regardless of their equipment or training.
As a Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department briefing on the topic explains, “Officers realize and accept the dangers, they also realize if they do nothing, more people will die or be injured than if they had taken action.”

This is the last post I will make as the topic sickens me.
Zero2Cool
2022-05-27T11:47:27Z
I do not remember the exact quote, however, right after 9/11 happened, a person in congress stood up and said this bring in billions of dollars. Meaning, tax payers will fork over money for the illusion of security.

I see massacres following the same suit. They figure out a way to leverage the illusion of safety (yes, it's an illusion, no one is safe, period) to syphon more and more money from tax payers. Most will say that contributing another $20 every paycheck to ensure every kid is safe from legally purchased guns is well worth it. As a human being, I can't say I would argue. I do think the funds are there already and are grossly misallocated.
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Cheesey
2022-05-27T14:15:36Z
Martha, you have made some great points. You said things that some people here might not have thought of.
Zero also made great points.

I hope some that don't think like we do have read them and consider the points made.
I turn 65 in July. I have been a gun owner since age 16. My Dad and older brother owned guns. I've been around them my whole life. I've never misused them, as my Dad took the time to TEACH me what damage they could do if misused.
I bought a pistol and taught my wife how to use it, just in case someone tried to break in.
The thought of having to shoot someone sickens me. But if it's me, my loved ones or him, it's going to be him.
I hope it never has to happen.
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Cheesey
2022-05-27T16:22:39Z
The father of the shooter said his son "was not a monster".
Let's see.....killed two teachers and 19 defenseless innocent children. Oh....let's not forget he also shot his grandmother IN THE FACE. Of course his father is also a criminal.
I wonder how many people would his son have to murder before his Dad would consider him a monster???
Yeah, maybe the kid was bullied. I was bullied all the time in school. I didn't grab one of my Dad's guns and go on a shooting rampage.
I see too much of attempts to make a criminal a victim and the victim out to be a criminal today.
The poor families of the victims....send your child off to school, and never see them again....they will be going through a living hell the rest of their lives.
This is one of the few times in my life where I'm glad I never had any children. This world seems to be going down the drain faster every year.
I pray for the families.
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dhazer
2022-05-27T23:48:18Z
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Guns are not the problem, but the ease of obtaining one is a problem. However, you'll note that two of the three I listed the weapons were obtained legally. So, maybe stricter gun purchasing laws could help reduce the firearm violence.

Australia banned guns, period. They just banned them. I'm not sure if it's every gun, but a good majority are banned. You speak of the black market. You have to realize that the black market will be marginalized and once supply and demand change, you will NOT be able to buy a gun for $50. That $50 gun today will be $5,000 after guns are abolished. This has been proven in Australia and by basic economics.

I am not saying abolishing every gun that holds more than 12 rounds is the only answer, or the only solution, or even THE answer/solution. Because if some idiot wants to harm people, they will find a way, even if it's by a knife like the Osaka massacre that left 8 children dead and over a dozen injured.

Do I think civilians should have such easy access to weapons that can shoot 25+ rounds in a clip? No, not really. If you're that bad at hunting animals, you should pick up a different hobby. I've heard the argument about the Revolutionary War so many times and it's so obvious how many people failed history class. We wouldn't be fighting muskets vs muskets. We would be fighting semi-automatic weapons vs drones, tanks, planes and a ton of other wicked nasty stuff.

I guess to sum up this rambling here. I don't think less guns is the solution. I know more guns is NOT the solution. I just think we have to do more to be better people. And for god sake, can we stop plastering these tragedies all over the place giving these cowards 15 minutes of "fame"?



Ok as a person that has many firearms and carries all the time unless I am at work and I still have one in my truck if the shit hits the fan. My wife still laughs at me when we goto a restaurant to eat because I always have to be facing the entry so I can see who is coming in. I went thru all the training to carry and have been taught if you don't plan to eliminate the threat don't carry a gun. As in eliminating the threat that is shoot to kill not wound.

Now lets start picking apart your theories a little, Guns are not the problem, but the ease of obtaining one is a problem. However, you'll note that two of the three I listed the weapons were obtained legally. So, maybe stricter gun purchasing laws could help reduce the firearm violence.

I take it you have never tried to buy a gun, you have to go thru a background check thru your state police. Also until a few years ago you couldn't get a pistol the same day, so I have no idea where you talk about the ease of getting a gun, thats pure MSM talk. Now if you want to do it illegally thats very easy to get a gun, when I lived in Kenosha I would see my neighbor pull up and if I wanted any type of gun he would have it in his trunk. That you will never stop as the government needs that to keep the divide.

Australia banned guns, period. They just banned them. I'm not sure if it's every gun, but a good majority are banned. You speak of the black market. You have to realize that the black market will be marginalized and once supply and demand change, you will NOT be able to buy a gun for $50. That $50 gun today will be $5,000 after guns are abolished. This has been proven in Australia and by basic economics.

That is correct they banned guns and now they are one of the world leaders in murders with knives, also you didn't see how during the pandemic they put people in concentration camps if they didn't get the jab, See that is what our 2nd amendment is all about, it is not to protect yourself it is to protect the people from the government. You have no clue most guns are put back on the streets that get confiscated and also they come in from the cartels and gangs from all over the world. There will never be a shortage of guns, and also a gun is not that hard to make.

Do I think civilians should have such easy access to weapons that can shoot 25+ rounds in a clip? No, not really. If you're that bad at hunting animals, you should pick up a different hobby. I've heard the argument about the Revolutionary War so many times and it's so obvious how many people failed history class. We wouldn't be fighting muskets vs muskets. We would be fighting semi-automatic weapons vs drones, tanks, planes, and a ton of other wicked nasty stuff. But a bunch of people with rifles that will fire 1 bullet every time you pull the trigger can still defeat an army with the other things. I always tell everyone give me one rife with 1 bullet and I will survive a war, it's called kill and take their weapons.



Now the easiest fix is just the opposite of what the Dems are saying, let's try like cities in Georgia and other states are doing and that is to make a law stating every house owner must have a firearm, and for the schools to get rid of the gun-free zones and let the teachers carry and it will stop a lot of these types of shootings. How many mass shootings do you see at a gun show or at a shooting range? The safest states to live in have the most lenient gun laws and those are facts, just like the cities with the most gun murders have the strictest gun laws. Everyone has the right to their opinion but it's better when they also know the facts. BTW look up Nelson Georgia and kenneshaw Georgia those cites you have to have a gun in your house.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂
dhazer
2022-05-28T00:08:59Z
Now I want to talk a little about the school shooting that happened. First off I don't believe it was meant to be a school shooting, and let me explain. First, he shoots his grandma over a cell phone bill apparently, and then flees the scene and gets into an accident. I haven't seen anything on what caused that but now he takes his "long rifle" and a pistol and runs to the side of the school and goes into a door. Now, why did he go to the side door and not the front door that he knew would be open? Ok so now he is in the school and he barricades himself in a room, why would you ever corner yourself if you plan on doing a mass shooting ( sounds sick but now you just limited how many people he can kill) and he also just gave the police the advantage as they know where he is and can move in. Yes, I have heard now they waited for almost an hour to end the threat which throws up another red flag. So a few other things strike me as funny about the whole thing, he has 2 Aaron Rodgers platform guns in the car but only takes one and a pistol. If the pistol was a 9mm then he limited himself to a 12-round clip compared to a 30-round and now you have 2 guns that use the same mags. Also, I thought it was interesting when the reports came out saying he was wearing body armor but he didn't have any plates for it. So he was basically wearing just a vest and not body armor. Now my biggest red flag came from the types of guns he had, These were Daniels's Defense rifles that cost anywhere between 1 and 3 thousand dollars apiece. Where does an 18 yr old dropout with no job come up with $4000 to buy these 2 guns? I hate saying this but doesn't it seem like every time the Democrats are in trouble when they control the government we end up with a school shooting? Look up their history of them and you might be shocked. Don't get me wrong my thoughts and prayers go out for those families but things just don't add up. Also why did the police sit back and wait an hour before ending the situation? Just some things I thought of right away that wasn't adding up.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂
Cheesey
2022-05-28T07:24:06Z
Great posts Dhazer!
Let's put "Gun free zone" signs up everywhere if they work so well! And then put up "No Crime zone" in every neighborhood!
That will stop the evil people!!!
Political correctness doesn't stop evil people from doing evil deeds.
I have a sign with a picture of a gun and the words "We don't dial 911" on it. I figure that if some crook wants to break into a house, he will most likely pick a different home if he thinks he might meet with serious resistance. (Which he would!)
As I have stated several times, criminals love unarmed victims.
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