Discussion Board
Cheesey
2020-07-27T15:57:33Z
My friend has a neighbor who died. She had heart trouble, cancer, and diabetes.
She also tested positive for corona virus. Guess what they put down as cause of death? Yup....the virus.
How many deaths have been listed as the virus, that had underlying health issues that actually compounded the problems?

Just because a country doesn’t state the cause of death was the virus doesn’t mean people that died did not have the virus, which added with their other illnesses actually killed them.
Trusting that othe countries are being honest with their covid numbers, is being naive in my opinion.
I also wonder if some of the states posting higher numbers might be an attempt to blame the President to make him lose the election. Politics can play into this.
Zero2Cool
2020-07-27T17:20:23Z
Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

My friend has a neighbor who died. She had heart trouble, cancer, and diabetes.
She also tested positive for corona virus. Guess what they put down as cause of death? Yup....the virus.
How many deaths have been listed as the virus, that had underlying health issues that actually compounded the problems?

Just because a country doesn’t state the cause of death was the virus doesn’t mean people that died did not have the virus, which added with their other illnesses actually killed them.
Trusting that othe countries are being honest with their covid numbers, is being naive in my opinion.
I also wonder if some of the states posting higher numbers might be an attempt to blame the President to make him lose the election. Politics can play into this.



I am certain politics play into this. I'm avoiding that because it is not something I can remotely cite as a valid source.

Most sources I've found are not stating the cause of death is COVID-19, rather, they are stating their death total is a "COVID-19 related death". Which, as you pointed out, if the individual is already under poor health, COVID-19 could be what expedited the process. I've even seen some people say vast majority of the dead would have died in a year anyway. Personally, that's a callous statement. I'm not saying it's a wrong statement. But, I know if I had another year with my mom, I would have gladly taken that year ... PROVIDED she was in COMFORTABLE health. If she was miserable and struggling to live day to day, I have to say (and this is callous in it's own right), maybe HER losing that extra is some kind of mercy.

The numbers, even with the exaggerated totals, are not worthy of the reaction received. But people see 145,000 people DIED and they all freak out. It's because we can't quantify ~145,000 out of ~328,000,000 with any sense of reality. If you have $100 and you lose $5, you can quantify that because you've probably had $100 before. We can't quantify 328 million and losing 145 thousand ... that's just not reality. But because we are more familiar with 145k than 328 million, ... which one slams us harder?
Zero2Cool
2020-07-27T18:49:57Z
The amount of positive cases and the lingering issues afterwards gives me more fear than the death numbers.

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Speaking of the death numbers, this is eye opening. Holy crap! The percent column is percent of deaths against total COVID-19 related deaths. This has really slammed hard on those 55 and up.

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Wow.
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Source: https://data.cdc.gov/NCH...Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku/data 
Cheesey
2020-07-27T21:23:48Z
Zero, I totally understand what you’re saying. My Dad died 46 years ago, my Mom 30 years ago. What I wouldn’t give for even one more day with them. To tell them how much I love them, how much I miss them. We never know when we might lose our loved ones.

The deaths from this disease is terrible. Using common sense should help to stop or at least slow it down.
But how many people are killed every month by evil people that don’t care about human life? Senseless murders? How about the yearly unborn lives that are snuffed out for convenience?
What I’m saying is, the sky isn’t falling. Yes, we have to take it seriously. But use common sense. Hopefully they will come up with a vaccine soon.
No one is to blame for this pandemic. It’s not Trumps fault. China should have made the world aware of this disease long ago. If there is any real blame, it belongs with China’s leaders.
When Trump shut down flights coming in from China, the Democrats said he was being a racist. Then as the disease shot through the country, the Democrats screamed he wasn’t doing enough. To me, that alone shows they are trying to use it to blame the President and get him kicked out.
I feel like the Democrats would rather have more people sick then to come up with a vaccine if they can get more votes, claming
it to be Trumps fault.

Oh....and I’m adding this so there is no misunderstanding of what I mean. I do NOT think all the people who vote democrat are like this. It’s the leadership that is like that. People like Nancy Pelosi.
The general people that are Democrats I don’t believe are like that.
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
2020-07-28T11:33:42Z
Sweden: the One Chart That Matters
MIKE WHITNEY • JULY 25, 2020
https://www.unz.com/mwhi...-one-chart-that-matters/ 
 Sweden Deaths.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
While the Covid-19 epidemic continues to drag on in the United States, it’s largely over in Sweden where fatalities have dropped to no more than 2 deaths per day for the last week. Sweden has been harshly criticized in the media for not imposing draconian lockdowns like the United States and the other European countries. Instead, Sweden implemented a policy that was both conventional and sensible. They recommended that people maintain a safe distance between each other and they banned gatherings of 50 people or more. They also asked their elderly citizens to isolate themselves and to avoid interacting with other people as much as possible. Other than that, Swedes were encouraged to work, exercise and get on with their lives as they would normally even though the world was still in the throes of a global pandemic.

The secret of Sweden’s success is that its experts settled on a strategy that was realistic, sustainable and science-based. The intention was never to “fight” the virus which is among the most contagious infections in the last century, but to protect the old and vulnerable while allowing the young, low-risk people to circulate, contract the virus, and develop the antibodies they’d need to fight similar pathogens in the future. It’s clear now that that was the best approach. And while Sweden could still experience sporadic outbreaks that might kill another 2 to 300 people, any recurrence of the infection in the Fall or Winter will not be a dreaded “Second Wave”, but a much weaker flu-like event that will not overwhelm the public health system or kill thousands of people.

As we’ve noted before, the media has been particularly vicious in their criticism of Sweden’s approach which they’ve characterized as overly “relaxed.” Check out this sampling of recent headlines:
• Sweden becomes an example of how not to handle COVID-19, CBS News
• Lack of Lockdown Increased COVID-19 Deaths in Sweden, U of V Newsroom
• Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale, New York Times
• Sweden Stayed Open And More People Died Of Covid-19, But The Real Reason May Be Something Darker, Forbes
• Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don’t do what we did. It’s not working. USA Today
• Sweden’s coronavirus death toll is now approaching zero, but experts are warning others not to hail it as a success, Business Insider
• Lack of COVID-19 Lockdown Increased Deaths in Sweden, Analysis Conclude, Virginia edu
• Sweden COVID-19 Deaths Linked to Failure to Lockdown as Country Prepares for Second Wave, Newsweek
• Sweden Tries Out a New Status: Pariah State, New York Times

As you can see, the media has taken a very hardline with Sweden. But, why? What has Sweden done that has provoked such a hostile response?
Nothing, really, they’ve just shrugged off the repressive stay-at-home orders and pursued their own independent policy. The Swedish approach stands in stark contrast to the lockdowns which are costly, ineffective and socially damaging. Here’s an excerpt from an article at The Evening Standard that underscores these very points:
  • “Lockdowns made little difference to the number of people who have died from coronavirus, a study has claimed. Researchers from the University of Toronto and University of Texas found that whether a country was locked down or not was “not associated” with the Covid-19 death rate.
  • Experts compared mortality rates and cases in 50 badly-hit countries up until May 1 and calculated that only 33 out of every million people had died from the virus…The study found that imposing lockdown measures succeeded in stopping hospitals becoming overwhelmed, but it did not translate into a significant reduction in deaths.
  • “Government actions such as border closures, full lockdowns, and a high rate of Covid-19 testing were not associated with statistically significant reductions in the number of critical cases or overall mortality,” the study, published in the Lancet online journal EClinicalMedicine, said.”
    (“Coronavirus lockdown ‘made no difference to number of deaths but stopped hospitals being overwhelmed”, Evening Standard)

….
Zero2Cool
2020-07-28T12:09:57Z
Sweden's population is under 11 million. I think the State of Illinois has more than that. Kind of hard to compare Sweden to the US when one has 11 million vs 328 million.

Originally Posted by: KRK 

Instead, Sweden implemented a policy that was both conventional and sensible. They recommended that people maintain a safe distance between each other and they banned gatherings of 50 people or more. They also asked their elderly citizens to isolate themselves and to avoid interacting with other people as much as possible. Other than that, Swedes were encouraged to work, exercise and get on with their lives as they would normally even though the world was still in the throes of a global pandemic.



This is the table I've been pounding my hand onto. I can't say it's gonna work even thought it worked for a (relatively speaking) small Country like Sweden, but it feels like the proper course based on the statistics.
Zero2Cool
2020-07-31T13:22:09Z
Holy crap. I grabbed the numbers from CDC today and decided to do percent for each age group. I'm sure there's a smart term for this, but it's kind of a bottoms up sum. Meaning, The percent is that of the total of that row, plus the values below it.

So, 97.20% of the deaths have come from ages 45 and above. If you look at the "Under 1 year" row, that's under 1 year and everyone older, thus, 100%.


 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
Zero2Cool
2020-08-11T14:31:17Z
Ugh. Numbers. So confusing, yet supposed to be the same.


 image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.
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Source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality 
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