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sschind
2019-04-26T22:54:05Z
Originally Posted by: Smokey 

Rashan Gary = Nick Perry 2.0

A player taken this high in the draft (#12) should be ready to step onto a football field and start. If Gary is to play LB as his selection announced, he will be lucky to be a 2nd string backup LB. As for being a pass rusher, GB's GM went to the FA market and hired Preston Smith. He and Kyler Fackrell will team up with Daniels and Clark and (Za'Darious) Smith should provide an aggressive pass rush. These veterans should have no real struggle forming into a solid unit. Dean Lowery and Tyler Lancaster will not readily allow Gary to move them out of their slots as the primary DL backups. So Gary is will have a long row to hoe if he expects to start at LB or DE.

Being a physical beast is just not enough. Professional players know all the nuances of playing their position. Gary might already have good football knowledge, but developing him into an effective LB or DE will be a project.

Had GB used this draft pick to take a much needed TE like Noah Fant, they could have traded or not traded the #30 pick and still picked a good DE/OLB. Hopefully Alabama's Irv Smith (TE) will still be available with GB's #44 overall pick.

[twocents]




I think you are reading far to much into the announcement of him being a LB. Most likely it was a bookkeeping error or simple mistake. I don't think the Packers wrote "we are taking Rashan Gary and playing him at LB" on the card

Zero2Cool
2019-04-26T23:04:40Z
Originally Posted by: sschind 

I think you are reading far to much into the announcement of him being a LB. Most likely it was a bookkeeping error or simple mistake. I don't think the Packers wrote "we are taking Rashan Gary and playing him at LB" on the card



Packers said Gary will start out in the OLB room.
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wpr
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2019-04-27T02:10:04Z
Originally Posted by: sschind 

For the record I was agreeing with you.



Haha. For the record, I can be obtuse.
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sschind
2019-04-27T05:24:14Z
Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

Packers said Gary will start out in the OLB room.



Thanks, I hadn't heard that..



Never mind.

macbob
2019-04-27T15:05:59Z
To me, feels like we could have gotten him later, that it was a stretch to take him at 12.

Would have preferred trading down if possible--but it requires two to tango.

In the absence of a trade down, I wasn't too excited about any of the other players left at that point. Maybe Brian Burns.

For whatever reason, this pick keeps making me subconsciously think about Justin Harrell...so I'm a little bit uncomfortable with it...
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2019-04-27T16:17:39Z
Originally Posted by: macbob 

To me, feels like we could have gotten him later, that it was a stretch to take him at 12.

Would have preferred trading down if possible--but it requires two to tango.

In the absence of a trade down, I wasn't too excited about any of the other players left at that point. Maybe Brian Burns.

For whatever reason, this pick keeps making me subconsciously think about Justin Harrell...so I'm a little bit uncomfortable with it...



I know what you mean. I hated the Harrell pick with every fiber of my body. This one I don't really mind. It's a bit of a gamble and I hate to gamble in the 1st round but still I feel pretty good about it.

I am not sure if it means I trust Gute more than Ted Thompson or what. I don't think so. Overall I was satisfied with Teddy's job and I fully support him landing in the Packer HoF in a few years. Hopefully they don't wait very long to do so.
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Mucky Tundra
2019-04-27T19:27:45Z






One thing I keep seeing and reading about Gary is he was constantly being double teamed and schemed against. I also wonder if Jim Harbuaghs abrasive coaching style caused Gary to tune out at times.


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Mucky Tundra
2019-04-27T21:19:23Z


Hopefully supervised by someone, don't need another Justin Harrell accident in the weight room
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Rockmolder
2019-04-28T11:49:55Z
Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 







One thing I keep seeing and reading about Gary is he was constantly being double teamed and schemed against. I also wonder if Jim Harbuaghs abrasive coaching style caused Gary to tune out at times.



I can't remember where I heared this, but a guy who's analyzed nearly every snap Gary had taken stated that that's not really true. Couldn't win one on one, either, because the only thing he knows how to do is a bull rush.

If anything, the 1-on-1 highlights in that post prove it. Doesn't get by his man on technique once there.
Rockmolder
2019-04-28T11:57:35Z
I like this pick and I get why we went for him.

I think the big thing will be adding onto his pass rushing skills. You get a guy who has the size of a 3-4 DE with the athleticism that rivals some DBs. He has decent strength, but nothing that blows you away. Yet, he fully depended on a bull rush move in college. Seems crazy to me, so if Pettine can make him a more polished rusher you get a ridiculous miss-match guy at OLB. Someone who's too fast for the big RTs, but just runs over TEs, RBs and finesse LTs.

Add to that that your OLB is usually a guy you want as far away from coverage situations. Here we have a pass rushing linebacker who can run with most RBs and TEs. That's almost unheared of.

That said, it's a lot of what-iffs and hoping the guys we picked get closer to their ceiling than to their floor. Something I like on one or two picks, but am a bit iffy about when you're picking athletes over football players every single pick in the draft.
steveishere
2019-04-28T13:18:41Z
Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 



One thing I keep seeing and reading about Gary is he was constantly being double teamed and schemed against. I also wonder if Jim Harbuaghs abrasive coaching style caused Gary to tune out at times.



I dunno, everything I've read about him from that coaching staff and harbaugh specifically sounds like they absolutely loved the guy.
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2019-04-28T13:32:13Z
Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 

I like this pick and I get why we went for him.

I think the big thing will be adding onto his pass rushing skills. You get a guy who has the size of a 3-4 DE with the athleticism that rivals some DBs. He has decent strength, but nothing that blows you away. Yet, he fully depended on a bull rush move in college. Seems crazy to me, so if Pettine can make him a more polished rusher you get a ridiculous miss-match guy at OLB. Someone who's too fast for the big RTs, but just runs over TEs, RBs and finesse LTs.

Add to that that your OLB is usually a guy you want as far away from coverage situations. Here we have a pass rushing linebacker who can run with most RBs and TEs. That's almost unheared of.

That said, it's a lot of what-iffs and hoping the guys we picked get closer to their ceiling than to their floor. Something I like on one or two picks, but am a bit iffy about when you're picking athletes over football players every single pick in the draft.



I remember Packer regimes of the past going for the athlete over football player routine. I think it was the Bart Starr era. It didn't work out so well for them.

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nerdmann
2019-04-28T15:10:10Z
If Pettine can scheme Fackrell to the QB 10.5 times, imagine how many times he can get this guy home.
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gbguy20
2019-04-28T15:38:23Z
I like the words you are saying nerd.
steveishere
2019-04-28T15:44:06Z
Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 

I like this pick and I get why we went for him.

I think the big thing will be adding onto his pass rushing skills. You get a guy who has the size of a 3-4 DE with the athleticism that rivals some DBs. He has decent strength, but nothing that blows you away. Yet, he fully depended on a bull rush move in college. Seems crazy to me, so if Pettine can make him a more polished rusher you get a ridiculous miss-match guy at OLB. Someone who's too fast for the big RTs, but just runs over TEs, RBs and finesse LTs.

Add to that that your OLB is usually a guy you want as far away from coverage situations. Here we have a pass rushing linebacker who can run with most RBs and TEs. That's almost unheared of.

That said, it's a lot of what-iffs and hoping the guys we picked get closer to their ceiling than to their floor. Something I like on one or two picks, but am a bit iffy about when you're picking athletes over football players every single pick in the draft.



Is this just in reference to Gary or the draft as a whole because most of the guys while they are almost all exceptional athletes I also don't really see an issue as far as being a "football player" is concerned. Savage had good production and plays like an animal throwing his body around, the 2nd rounder Jenkins played pretty much every single spot on the OL, the TE Jace had huge production, then the later round guys are kind of mixed but that's when you aren't getting a player without some kind of issue.
Rockmolder
2019-04-28T16:30:21Z
Originally Posted by: nerdmann 

If Pettine can scheme Fackrell to the QB 10.5 times, imagine how many times he can get this guy home.



If it's such an absolute that players have Pettine to thank for their sack total, I don't even see why you'd waste the 12th overall pick on a pass rusher.

Kyler just feasted on abysmal offensive lines for 80% of his sacks. Six of his 10,5 came against probably the worst offensive lines in the league. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not like Pettine magically gets him onto the QB. Add to that that he's just made huge step from year two to year three.

Looks to me like his sacks in, for instance, this Seahawks game came from beating the OT in pretty normal plays. Nothing about getting schemed to the QB.

https://www.packers.com/...-game-highlights-week-11 
Rockmolder
2019-04-28T17:02:25Z
Originally Posted by: steveishere 

Is this just in reference to Gary or the draft as a whole because most of the guys while they are almost all exceptional athletes I also don't really see an issue as far as being a "football player" is concerned. Savage had good production and plays like an animal throwing his body around, the 2nd rounder Jenkins played pretty much every single spot on the OL, the TE Jace had huge production, then the later round guys are kind of mixed but that's when you aren't getting a player without some kind of issue.



This is in reference to all of our picks, but our 2nd and 3rd rounder.

Don't get me wrong, Savage did nice things in college, but not as good as a lot of other safeties that were on the board at that point. The thing he has over them is his speed, versatility and ability to reach a higher ceiling.

One big knock on him, for instance, is that he often made pretty bad decisions when playing single high safety. Step the wrong way, turn around, wide receiver is gone deep. He misses tackles and bites on play-actions, pump fakes etc.

That said, I like the pick. He's ridiculously quick, he's the perfect addition to Amos' certain style of play, but the reason he goes late in the 1st instead of late in the 2nd is his athleticism, not his gametape or instincts.

On Sternberger... Love the pick, but you pick him on one year sample size. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, especially since he did get a lot of catches and yards in that one single year, but that does add some risk. Maybe athletics over production isn't the correct statement in his case, so I'll give you that one.

Later rounds picks I agree on, as well. You don't get polished prospects in round 6 and 7. You have to accept some flaws. A guy like Ty Summers, though, is barely a football player. Amazing athlete, runs great for someone with linebacker-size, but didn't do anything all that well on even a college-level. Maybe as a special teamer, he'll contribute, but this pick is ALL about the athlete.

That still makes it 5 out of 7 picks. With two of those being first rounders. It's a gamble that can work out great or leave you in in the same state as the 2000s Raiders. I'd like to see us pick more balanced, but maybe it's just the way the pieces fell this year for Gute.
nerdmann
2019-04-28T17:27:00Z
Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 

If it's such an absolute that players have Pettine to thank for their sack total, I don't even see why you'd waste the 12th overall pick on a pass rusher.

Kyler just feasted on abysmal offensive lines for 80% of his sacks. Six of his 10,5 came against probably the worst offensive lines in the league. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not like Pettine magically gets him onto the QB. Add to that that he's just made huge step from year two to year three.

Looks to me like his sacks in, for instance, this Seahawks game came from beating the OT in pretty normal plays. Nothing about getting schemed to the QB.

https://www.packers.com/...-game-highlights-week-11 



Ok then how would Gary do in those same situations? Dude can close, 4.58.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Rockmolder
2019-04-28T17:52:16Z
Originally Posted by: nerdmann 

Ok then how would Gary do in those same situations? Dude can close, 4.58.



Well, for the 12th overall pick, I certainly hope he could beat up on one of the worst starting LTs in the league.

That said, that wasn't what this was about, but I admire your red herring skills.
Mucky Tundra
2019-04-28T18:46:06Z
Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 

I can't remember where I heared this, but a guy who's analyzed nearly every snap Gary had taken stated that that's not really true. Couldn't win one on one, either, because the only thing he knows how to do is a bull rush.

If anything, the 1-on-1 highlights in that post prove it. Doesn't get by his man on technique once there.



Yeah the lack of technique did jump out at me. It's either run through the guy or run around him. He may have been doubled a lot, but you'd like him to beat them once in a while too.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 

I dunno, everything I've read about him from that coaching staff and harbaugh specifically sounds like they absolutely loved the guy.



Maybe abrasive was the wrong word? I guess what I was getting at with Harbaugh is his super intense, 110% all the time, rah rah coaching style may not have been what Gary needed at times.
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Nonstopdrivel
2019-04-29T00:41:33Z

UserPostedImage Green Bay Packers: Rashan Gary, DE/DT, Michigan D Grade
I can't really get behind this pick. Rashan Gary is insanely athletic and physically talented, but he was a huge disappointment as a player in Michigan. He also has some off-the-field concerns. There was speculation that Gary would fall to the 20s, which would've been a reasonable spot to select him. Not here, though. This is a major reach. If Gary couldn't produce in college, why would that suddenly happen when he has an NFL contract?


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