evad04
14 years ago

I'm not saying Bishop is a better option. He plays slower than Hawk. What I'm saying is that there doesn't appear to be any room in our defense for the skillset that Hawk (and Bishop, imo) bring to the table. Our OLBs are outside rushers and contain guys. That essentially means our ILBs need to be able to cover. If you can't cover, you can't play much ILB in this defense. Hawk can't cover...

"bozz_2006" wrote:


Your gross oversimplification of what this defense needs notwithstanding, there's plenty of room for Hawk's skill-set. "That essentially means our ILBs need to be able to cover." Ability to cover is a prerequisite for all non-super-fatty defensive players. Hawk may not be a coverage dynamo, but you make it sound like he's Jarrett Bush blindfolded. Hardly the case.

As far as skills the translate, how about tackling? Hawk is a very sure tackler, one of the Packers' best. You don't think play recognition, pursuit, and tackling are important for an ILB in a 3-4? My God, ILBs account for the majority of tackles in those defenses.

You're oversimplifying things WAY too much.

"evad04" wrote:



And you're saying that I'm saying tackling, recognition, and pursuit don't matter? Riiiiiiiiight. I'm saying that the way this defense is shaped, it often leads to Hawk being the odd man out, even though he is a sure tackler and is strong in pursuit. Aaron Kampman had a great skillset, but unfortunately it didn't fit this team's needs very well. And no, I'm not equating the two, it's just an illustration.

"bozz_2006" wrote:


I didn't assert that you thought those attributes don't matter. I was pointing out that there's more to ILB than dropping back in coverage. I flat out don't agree with your assessment a) that the ILBs must handle the majority of coverage issues and b) that A.J. Hawk can't cover. To restate my point, I'm saying there's more to his role than just coverage, and in those other areas (play recognition, tackling, etc.) A.J. is above average.

It doesn't bother me that Hawk isn't in on sub-packages. I can tell you, we won't be playing nickel defense exclusively. There will be plenty of opportunities for Hawk to get on the field. And when he does, I think we can expect more of the same: tough tackling, consistency, and the occasional big play. Blue collar stuff. I don't think we'll be left with any impression that Hawk doesn't "fit" in the defense.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
bozz_2006
14 years ago
Fair enough. I do think he has a role and he will get opportunities. I have been careful not to say or imply that he doesn't belong here. And you're absolutely right, when he plays he plays hard and tough. And I agree that there is more to his role than just coverage. I agree that those areas include play recognition and tackling (just like every other position really).

But I still think that because the league is so pass-oriented now, especially with dynamic TEs, and because our outside backers mainly provide pass rush in passing situations, a primary responsibility for our ILBs is coverage. This is not AJ's area of strength, so we see a lot more of Chillar, whom I would say is overall a lesser player than AJ but because of the scheme and his coverage ability is utilized more often that Hawk.
UserPostedImage
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
In this one game. Hawk will probably have a year as productive as last year. He was not on the field for most of the Detroit game last year either because of playing sub packages for most of the game. He still was second in tackles for the year.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Pack93z
14 years ago
UserPostedImage
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Wow, Shawn, if you could cut Matthews out of the background with those other legs and asses and transplant him by himself into the background of those trees, that would make an awesome sig graphic. Though I'd rather have his own face than the visage of some video game character I don't even know. 😉
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago
That is the predators face.. the depiction of his celebration.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Fan Shout
dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
wpr (10-Jun) : That's awesome Martha.
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : How's the ayahuasca tea he makes, Martha?
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : Turns out he like older women
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : I wasn't supposed to say anything, but yes the word is out and we are happy 😂😂😂
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : I might be late on this but Aaron Rodgers is now married
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : Well he can always ask his brother for pointers
Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : Bo Melton taking some reps at CB as well as WR
Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : key transactions coming today at 3pm that will consume more cap in 2025
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jaire played in just 34 of a possible 68 games since the start of the 2021 season
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : reported, but not expected to practice
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jenkins has REPORTED for mandatory camp
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : I really thought he'd play for Packers.
buckeyepackfan (9-Jun) : Packers releasing Jaire Alexander.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : (Context: he wants his defense to create turnovers)
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : Giants DC Shane Bowen tells players to “be a damn pirate."
dfosterf (6-Jun) : Semper fi !
Cheesey (6-Jun) : This is why I have so much respect for those that have gone through battles
Cheesey (6-Jun) : I can't even imagine what that would have been like
wpr (6-Jun) : "Come on, you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever?"
wpr (6-Jun) : Facing a line of machine guns 2 time medal of Honor recipient, First Sergeant Dan Daly told his men,
wpr (6-Jun) : Another detachment went into the Belleau Wood.
wpr (6-Jun) : On the 6th the Marines took Hill 142 but suffered terrible losses.
wpr (6-Jun) : It’s time to remember dfoster’s Marine brothers in Belleau Wood. The battle went on from June 1-26. Nearly 10,000 casualties.
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett have signed with the PACK
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : he won't be wearing #12, maybe he will wear number two
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : He will fail this season, should have retired
Mucky Tundra (5-Jun) : Thus the cycle of Hall of Fame Packer QBs going to the Jets and then the Vikings is broken
bboystyle (5-Jun) : Rodgers to steelers on 1 year contract
Zero2Cool (5-Jun) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.
Martha Careful (5-Jun) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
dfosterf (4-Jun) : We old Martha.
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : *front four
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome
dfosterf (4-Jun) : *directions*
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Just don't ask him for driving direct
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Probably his toe. Pretty much a great center. Toe injuries are brutal to bigen
Mucky Tundra (2-Jun) : Lions All-Pro C Frank Ragnow retires
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
31m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

58m / Random Babble / Martha Careful

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

11-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

10-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

6-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

27-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.