evad04
14 years ago

I'm not saying Bishop is a better option. He plays slower than Hawk. What I'm saying is that there doesn't appear to be any room in our defense for the skillset that Hawk (and Bishop, imo) bring to the table. Our OLBs are outside rushers and contain guys. That essentially means our ILBs need to be able to cover. If you can't cover, you can't play much ILB in this defense. Hawk can't cover...

"bozz_2006" wrote:


Your gross oversimplification of what this defense needs notwithstanding, there's plenty of room for Hawk's skill-set. "That essentially means our ILBs need to be able to cover." Ability to cover is a prerequisite for all non-super-fatty defensive players. Hawk may not be a coverage dynamo, but you make it sound like he's Jarrett Bush blindfolded. Hardly the case.

As far as skills the translate, how about tackling? Hawk is a very sure tackler, one of the Packers' best. You don't think play recognition, pursuit, and tackling are important for an ILB in a 3-4? My God, ILBs account for the majority of tackles in those defenses.

You're oversimplifying things WAY too much.

"evad04" wrote:



And you're saying that I'm saying tackling, recognition, and pursuit don't matter? Riiiiiiiiight. I'm saying that the way this defense is shaped, it often leads to Hawk being the odd man out, even though he is a sure tackler and is strong in pursuit. Aaron Kampman had a great skillset, but unfortunately it didn't fit this team's needs very well. And no, I'm not equating the two, it's just an illustration.

"bozz_2006" wrote:


I didn't assert that you thought those attributes don't matter. I was pointing out that there's more to ILB than dropping back in coverage. I flat out don't agree with your assessment a) that the ILBs must handle the majority of coverage issues and b) that A.J. Hawk can't cover. To restate my point, I'm saying there's more to his role than just coverage, and in those other areas (play recognition, tackling, etc.) A.J. is above average.

It doesn't bother me that Hawk isn't in on sub-packages. I can tell you, we won't be playing nickel defense exclusively. There will be plenty of opportunities for Hawk to get on the field. And when he does, I think we can expect more of the same: tough tackling, consistency, and the occasional big play. Blue collar stuff. I don't think we'll be left with any impression that Hawk doesn't "fit" in the defense.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
bozz_2006
14 years ago
Fair enough. I do think he has a role and he will get opportunities. I have been careful not to say or imply that he doesn't belong here. And you're absolutely right, when he plays he plays hard and tough. And I agree that there is more to his role than just coverage. I agree that those areas include play recognition and tackling (just like every other position really).

But I still think that because the league is so pass-oriented now, especially with dynamic TEs, and because our outside backers mainly provide pass rush in passing situations, a primary responsibility for our ILBs is coverage. This is not AJ's area of strength, so we see a lot more of Chillar, whom I would say is overall a lesser player than AJ but because of the scheme and his coverage ability is utilized more often that Hawk.
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Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
In this one game. Hawk will probably have a year as productive as last year. He was not on the field for most of the Detroit game last year either because of playing sub packages for most of the game. He still was second in tackles for the year.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Pack93z
14 years ago
UserPostedImage
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Wow, Shawn, if you could cut Matthews out of the background with those other legs and asses and transplant him by himself into the background of those trees, that would make an awesome sig graphic. Though I'd rather have his own face than the visage of some video game character I don't even know. 😉
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Pack93z
14 years ago
That is the predators face.. the depiction of his celebration.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
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