Zero2Cool
14 years ago
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/08/29/mmqb/index.html?eref=sihp 

MINNEAPOLIS -- Odd, sort of, to be reviewing the most important week of the preseason and writing mainly about the impact of an officiating decision. But the most intriguing event of the third round of games has to do with officiating, and the effect of moving the umpire from the defensive to the offensive side of the ball so he won't be such a defenseless target in the middle of pass patterns.

I don't want to be too dramatic about it, but it's a virtual certainty that the rule will have far more impact on the Colts than on any other team in football. They won't be able to run their no-huddle offense with the same speed. And the triggerman knows it.

Peyton Manning thinks back to the Patriots-Colts game last November -- the Belichick No-Punt Game -- and is sure that game would have ended differently if the new ump rule was in place.

"If we had this rule last year,'' Manning said Saturday night, "there's no way we catch up in that New England game. We were down, what, 21 points in the fourth quarter? We wouldn't have had enough time to run enough plays to catch up. But forget about that game. Let's chart all the comeback wins where a team runs the hurry-up in the fourth quarter. How many of those games would have ended up the same way -- or would the quarterbacks have had enough time to run enough plays to come back and win?''

To recap the new rule: The umpire traditionally was the official who most often spotted the ball, then scurried back about five yards behind the defensive line of scrimmage to watch the play unfold. But last year, keeping with the recent tradition of physical plays against the ump because he was the center of a bunch of offensive crossing routes, there were approximately 100 collisions between players and umps. Three of those resulted in concussions. One resulted in an umpire needing shoulder surgery, and another ump need knee surgery after being knocked down.

The Competition Committee, backed by Commissioner Roger Goodell, deemed it a safety issue, so the ump was assigned to a spot about 15 yards behind the offensive line of scrimmage, on the opposite side of where the referee is stationed. The lone exception to the rule happens in the last two minutes of each half, when the league, in a nod to the possibility of teams running a hurry-up offense, will station the umps in their traditional spot, so as not to interfere with the offensive rhythm in a two-minute drill.

Problem is, lots of teams use the two-minute drill at times other than in the last two minutes of the half of a game. The Colts aren't alone, but they are the poster children for mastery of the quick calls and hurry-up pace.

On Sunday I asked the new NFL vice president of officiating, Carl Johnson, about Manning's claim that teams can't run hurry-up offensive series the same way they have in recent years. Which is to say, in a hurry.

"The way the new mechanic of the umpire positioning is, I don't have a resolution to that,'' said Johnson. "It's going to take a couple extra seconds to spot the ball. There's no way around that. But this is a work in progress. We're aggressively seeking ways to improve the mechanics.''

Do the math. An umpire traditionally is a stocky guy, to withstand the physicality of the position. Imagine if a team goes into the no-huddle and runs, say, seven straight plays of hurry-up, and the ump has to run in, spot the ball and then run back 12 to 15 yards. First of all, these big guys are going to be absolutely gassed. Secondly, they're going to slow the game down.

Many, many issues. One: Shouldn't the umpires now be the ones in the best physical condition, not the biggest men on the crew? I think if the league sticks with the ump behind the offense, the physical dimensions of the umpire will be altered with a nod toward a guy who can run all day. "I worry about the umpires' conditioning,'' said Indy GM Bill Polian, also a Competition Committee member. And from being on the phone about this since Thursday night, he's not the only one who worried that the current average-sized umpire is not the ideal physical specimen to be doing the job the way it's defined now.

Two: Why do the umps have to be the ones who have to spot the ball? Johnson told me they don't, and crews have been alerted that other officials, for expediency's sake, can also spot it, depending where the play ends.

Three: Why does an ump have to be so far behind the line of scrimmage on the offensive side? Johnson said he doesn't; one of the tweaks already made to the system says that as soon the umpire is behind the back or quarterback -- whoever is furthest back from the line -- the quarterback can snap the ball without penalty.

Four: Why is the "false start -- snap infringement'' penalty even called? Why not simply just do the play over? Johnson said if there was no penalty in place, then there'd be nothing to stop a quarterback from hustling to snap the ball on the edge of the rules. If the passer knew he'd be able to do the play over regardless, then why not try to play hurry-up?

Thursday night in Green Bay, the Colts twice got called for "false start -- snap infringement'' for snapping the ball before umpire Garth DeFelice had returned to his position. Once it was because the Colts' Anthony Gonzalez made a questionable reception, and Manning was hustling to the line to try to force the hand of Green Bay coach Mike McCarthy to either use one of his replay challenges or, if he didn't, to get the next play off quickly so the catch would stand. "So not only do we get penalized,'' said Manning, "but now McCarthy has plenty of time to decide whether to challenge the play or not.''

Polian's view on the infringement penalty is an interesting one. He thinks a game with a slower or older ump trying to keep up with a quick-snapping offense could be significantly affected. "I am dead-set against the penalty,'' said Polian. "It is insane. If I knew it would be this way, I'd have voted against it, and not only that, I'd have crusaded against it.''

One other interesting issue here. The NFL has created one way of ump-positioning for 56 minutes and one way for the final two minutes of each half. In a way, the league is saying, We're concerned about umpire safety, but we're still going to allow 10 or 12 plays a game, on average, to be snapped with the umps in harm's way. "It's like you saying to your kids, 'Don't touch that!' '' said Manning. "Then you say, 'Well, you can touch it a couple of times.' '' The league's trying to straddle the fine line of not affecting the game too much with the health of officials. It's a tough call.

There will be a third conference call this week with the members of the Competition Committee and Johnson to determine what further tweaks to make in the system. This much is known: The NFL is not going back to the old way of umpire-positioning. That's for sure. Goodell can't say he's concerned about umpire safety, change a rule, then change it back without letting it play out in a regular season.

On Sept. 10, two days before the first Sunday of the regular season, the league's 17 umpires and 17 referees will meet in Dallas with Johnson to discuss the new system and whether there might be some little tweaks the rank-and-file can suggest to make it a cleaner adjustment. (It'll be interesting to see if Saints coach Sean Payton pushes the envelope in the first game of the season, the night before this officiating summit in Texas. I hope Johnson assigns the most physically fit ump to that Thursday night game.)

For now, I can see some mayhem on the horizon. Indianapolis opens the season at Houston, and the Texans have the ability to play pinball football, scoring early and often. If the Colts find themselves down double-digits in the fourth quarter, I can see Manning wanting to go to a quick-snap set (he might want to in the middle of the second quarter; who knows?) and being frustrated by the pace of the officials.

Usually the NFL has a good officiating controversy two or three times a year. I don't remember one in August before.

Before I move on to the other news of the week, let's look at Manning's point about the Patriots game last year, to see if he's right.

I examined Manning's point about the big comeback last November to see about the quick no-huddle he ran. Let say, for the sake of argument, that the re-positioning of the umpire would have taken an additional five seconds per play, with the obvious proviso that on incomplete passes or on plays when the clock was stopped you wouldn't add the additional four seconds. Would the Colts have actually had enough time to rebound from a 31-14 deficit with 14 minutes to play to win? They had 16 plays. Eight of them were live-ball plays, with the clock running at the end. Considering that Manning bled the clock in the last drive of the game, inside the two-minute warning, it's a stretch to think that 40 seconds would have doomed the Colts that night ... though it's possible the Patriots, rested and able to react better to his fast-paced offense, would have made some defensive plays to stop the Colts on one of the three scoring drives.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/08/29/mmqb/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0y6GoTLe5 




I liked Manning's reference to telling a kid don't touch that, but you can once or twice, lol. I think that once the umpire is behind the QB he should be able to snap the ball. Get more athletic umpires if it they can't get behind the QB in 2 seconds or less.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
14 years ago
Well....to be fair, the refs are out there for EVERY snap. Not just for the offense. So i can see how they might get "gassed".
And as far as Manning "crying" over it.......it's a rule for ALL teams. Yes, it might affect them more, but then they need to change their strategy to fit the rules then.
As the rules change, you have to change with them, or suffer the consequences.
That's how i see it, at least.
UserPostedImage
djcubez
14 years ago
I like what this player had to say (or tweet I guess) later in MMQB:

Four-Part Tweet of the Week

"Every ump I have talked to this offseason hates the new rule where they have them. All of them felt the way fb players do. Injuries are part''

"Of the position they ref at. One also told me that the comp comm changed the rule without consulting one ump. (Although I'm sure Perrera''

"Had a say) loved what Tirico said. Put a helmet on them if they are concerned. Don't change the way the game is played. Altho if it pisses''

"Manning off, I could learn to deal with it. LOL''

-- @ericwinston, Texans tackle Eric Winston, on the rule moving the umpires from a linebacker's position to about 14 yards behind the offense to avoid umps getting beat around like pinballs.



I always found it odd that refs were almost always old, unathletic men. I mean, their job is to keep up with some of the most well-conditioned athletes in the world.
dfosterf
14 years ago
I just like the fact that Manning looked like such a complete cry-baby when the penalties were called.

His point was legitimate, imo---I still don't care, I believe he was pouting, lol
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Poor Peyton, the whiny twit.

Personally, I've always hated the way he goes up and back to the line of scrimmage several times in a play. "See how smart I am, you can't touch me because I'm moving all the time, changing everything six times because I'm so fucking smart."

Any rule that limits Peyton Manning shit is a good rule, IMO. Constipated asshole.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Rockmolder
14 years ago
I bet the NE Pats will come out soon, complaining about where the refs are at now. Wes Welker can't use the ref as an extra offensive player anymore now.

But Peyton's point is a pretty valid one. If you run a high speed no huddle offense, trying to catch defenses off guard and snap it fast to get things like 12 men on the field, you don't want the ref to get in the way.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago

I bet the NE Pats will come out soon, complaining about where the refs are at now. Wes Welker can't use the ref as an extra offensive player anymore now.

But Peyton's point is a pretty valid one. If you run a high speed no huddle offense, trying to catch defenses off guard and snap it fast to get things like 12 men on the field, you don't want the ref to get in the way.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Maybe part of my problem is the "trying to catch off guard" part as a general strategy for playing football. It's from the land of finesse. Football isn't about tricking the other side. Its about lining up and beating the best, not finding a way to ensure the other side can't show their best.

It's like a kid saying "nanner nanner nanner" when he beats you in a race by starting on "Set" rather than "Go."
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Tezzy
14 years ago
What I don't understand is how Polian didn't realize this would happen when he was a champion for the rule change. Did he think the refs were in a warp bubble and could just instantly change positions in a given moment. Any person that had taped out 7 yards on the floor could have determined it was going to take 5 seconds for a ref to put the ball on the ground and get behind the deepest player. I'm not suprised that Peyton is such a cry-baby when his entire career in Indianapolis he has been tutored by cry-babies at all levels of the organization.

Personal attacks aside, the rule is dumb considering the two minute drill it goes back to the normal setup. Just dumb. I hope they nix the rule for the start of the season. The umpires know what they are getting into when they go out there, either they can handle it or they can't
On top of every beard grows a man.
"The Bears are shell-shocked... and it's breaking my heart."
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
Manning was exaggerating the impact of the new rule. His reactions during the game were calculated to get people to think the rule sucks. It worked. If it were a regular season game, he would have just dealt with it.

Now, if he makes it look like it is screwing up the game, it may get overturned.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Cheesey
14 years ago
Good point, Dex.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Martha Careful (53m) : RIP Junior Bridgeman. An excellent businessman and NBA er
Zero2Cool (2h) : It's better to have $17m to use on players who will be on the field. That's why trade/release is talked
Zero2Cool (2h) : post june is $7m cap hit with $17m saving
Zero2Cool (2h) : oops meant $10m cap hit
Zero2Cool (2h) : And pre june is $10m savings
Zero2Cool (2h) : Can't make him play.
dhazer (2h) : I am curious why the big need to release Jaire, we have 29 million cap space we arent spending and would only gain $6 million/ make him play
Zero2Cool (4h) : Joey Bosa signed with Bills?
dfosterf (4h) : What they are offering is a left over case of Leinies from the Chippewa Falls plant
Zero2Cool (4h) : 27, 59, 91, 129 gets you Jaire and our 3rd
Zero2Cool (4h) : they give us those five, or even first four, they can have Jaire.
Zero2Cool (4h) : 27, 59, 91, 129 and 136 are only ones worth having of theirs.
dfosterf (4h) : What they don't have is cap space, at least presently at 5.6 mil
dfosterf (4h) : Poor bastards only have 11
Zero2Cool (4h) : Ravens ain't got crap for picks.
Zero2Cool (4h) : Aaron Rodgers is choosing between Steelers and Giants. The Vikings are officially out on him, per RapSheet
dfosterf (5h) : Current cap space 29.6 million.
dfosterf (5h) : Hobbs 2025 cap hit just under 6 million. Banks 2025 cap hit just over 9 million
Mucky Tundra (11h) : beast, this is news to me! Tell me more about these, "draft picks." They seem mighty mysterious! 😉
beast (13h) : Yes, the Ravens have draft picks
dfosterf (14h) : Good luck to him.
Zero2Cool (16h) : Eric Stokes signs with Raiders
Martha Careful (17h) : Tyler Linderbaum C
Mucky Tundra (17h) : Cap space?
Zero2Cool (17h) : Do Ravens have anything we'd even entertain to have?
Mucky Tundra (19h) : I've seen trade ideas of Jaire going to the Ravens all offseason
beast (20h) : A probably false rumor is suggesting CB Jaire Alexander is being traded to the Ravens, again probably false
beast (20h) : Commanders might have a dominant offense the next 3 years at least
Zero2Cool (22h) : San Francisco 49ers announced they have released DL Leonard Floyd.
Mucky Tundra (23h) : Er getting traded twice like that
Mucky Tundra (23h) : Huh, LT Laremy Tunsil traded from Houston to Washington. Never heard of a top OT getting traded in his career like that
Martha Careful (11-Mar) : Minnesota Vikings cornerback Byron Murphy Jr. is returning on a three-year, $66 million deal
Zero2Cool (11-Mar) : Damn
Martha Careful (11-Mar) : Saints are re-signing DE Chase Young to a three-year, $51 million deal worth up to $57 million.
Martha Careful (11-Mar) : 49ers releasing FB Juszcyk any interest?
Zero2Cool (11-Mar) : digits of four
Zero2Cool (11-Mar) : four digits
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : Eh, don't think so. better to split
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : on new site, would Fan Shout and GameDay Chat show same messages?
Mucky Tundra (10-Mar) : The Hall of Fame stuff probably came from a scout as Zero said; at this point though it's hard to see them moving ZT from RT
Mucky Tundra (10-Mar) : Regarding ZT at C, Gute had said he felt C was ZTs best position after he was drafted.
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : LB Oren Burks to sign a 2-year, $5M deal with the Bengals.
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : Based on how it was worded at the time, probably scout.
beast (10-Mar) : I don't think the media person ever told the public the source, but Gute or LaFleur did say they thought Tom has earned his spot at OT
beast (10-Mar) : I think it was supposedly unnamed Packers source
buckeyepackfan (10-Mar) : Was that Gute or Lefleur or someone else?
buckeyepackfan (10-Mar) : Zach Tom could be a really good guard, an all pro tackle, but probably be a HOF Center. Who said that?
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : It's March 10th. I don't think anything is done.
Martha Careful (10-Mar) : if we think CB is done, we have a poor roster
Mucky Tundra (10-Mar) : CB and OG in FA, narrows down the top of the draft board a little
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
Eagles
Recent Topics
28m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / TheKanataThrilla

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

11-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

10-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

6-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

6-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

4-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

4-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

4-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

3-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

3-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

1-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.