Greg C.
15 years ago
I suppose Chmura's numbers are comparable to Bubba's in a general sort of way (I'm not sure what Lee is doing in there, as he only had a couple of good seasons), but when you look at the yards per catch and yards per game, the difference is clear. Chmura was way more of an impact player. Bubba's TD's were nice, but he was basically a red zone specialist and not really what I would call a playmaker. Plus Chmura was on a Super Bowl winning team, and another team that made it to a Super Bowl. He deserves to be in.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Based on his on field performance only?

So Lee and Franks are Pro Bowlers as well in Green Bay history? Comparable numbers...

Fact is.. Chmura was over-rated greatly in Green Bay..

"pack93z" wrote:



I missed this nugget. It's not a fact Chmura is/was over rated in Green Bay. I live in Green Bay and I don't remember or had any discussion where anyone anointed Chmura's great or anything other than someone who was above average. I recall quite a few people saying without Favre, we wouldn't know Chmura at all. I don't doubt that.

I'm sure some over rated him just as some thought Reggie Cobb was "great", but didn't have the OL to let him shine.

I know some under rated Chmura after his court case saying he was garbage, useless and a waste of roster spot anyhow so losing him doesn't matter.

So, no that is not a fact, that is your opinion of him being over rated. And according to the stats you provided, which you also indicated the * indicates Pro Bowl, no Lee was not a Pro Bowler. I think I missed your "tone" in that comment, not sure.



Thing is, Chmura played on a team that won a Super Bowl and was viewed as an important player on the team's success, which he was. That is why he's going into the Packers Hall of Fame. He helped return the title back to Titletown. Without a good blocking TE who was also a threat to catch over the middle, the running game would have slacked as would the slant passing attack which was a staple in the offense.

If the Packers weren't in the Super Bowl either of those year's, Chmura wouldn't be in the Packers Hall of Fame, in my opinion.
UserPostedImage
15 years ago
All things considered, putting Chmura into the Packers Hall of Fame sets a standard, one that should be elevated.

Forget his personality issues, based on his production alone (an above average tight end who happened to be on an elite team with the best quarterback (at the time) in the league), he should not be in the Packers Hall of Fame. Even though I can't say "He should be in, and he shouldn't" -

I have always felt that our Hall of Fame should have very high standards for induction.
UserPostedImage 
Zero2Cool is my captain.
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Mark Chmura proves himself worthy of Green Bay Packers Hall of Fame 

Its been nearly a decade since Mark Chmura was acquitted of third-degree sexual assault charges in suburban Milwaukee.

Although Chmura was legally cleared, the reputation of the Green Bay Packers Pro Bowl tight end took a major hit in subsequent years.

Any discussion of prom parties and hot tubs ultimately led to bad or tasteless jokes involving Chmura. His name has been dragged through the mud countless times, and some view him with disdain or disgust.

But the time to move on is long overdue. Chmuras induction into the Packers Hall of Fame on Saturday night at the Lambeau Field Atrium should help in the healing process and serve to formally welcome him back into the Packers family where he belongs.

This is not meant to excuse Chmuras behavior a decade ago. Chmura himself has admitted he was guilty of bad judgment and immature actions. He has apologized, but more importantly, has spent the last 10 years serving as a productive member of society and solid citizen.

For those who dont believe Chmura is worthy of Hall of Fame induction based on character issues, the time has come to let go.

It would be different had Chmura been convicted of a crime, but a jury found him not guilty. The fact he has nevertheless paid a heavy price in the form of public scorn should give those who stand in judgment their pound of flesh.

To his credit, Chmura has never played the victim card and suggested people feel sorry for him.

Instead, in the midst of public ridicule, he picked himself up, gritted his teeth and moved forward. He became a better husband and father and has contributed to his workplace and community.

What more can we possibly ask of him?

Denny Tattum, Packers Hall of Fame vice president of sales and marketing, said a players off-field activities, both good and bad, are taken into account during the selection process.

Chmura, No. 1, was acquitted, said Tattum. Chmura, No. 2, has really been in a lot of ways a staunch supporter of the community he lives in. Professionally hes upheld his part of the program as far as his commitment to the community, his job and his family.

Some choose to dwell on past mistakes and wallow in what-ifs. But one measure of success is how a person responds to adversity and failure. Chmura has passed that test with flying colors.

It would have been easy for Chmura to flee the state, yet he chose to stay among us to begin the painful process of rebuilding his reputation.

Had Chmura continued a pattern of questionable behavior, the critics would have reason to doubt him. But over the past decade Chmura has changed the course of his life by doing the right things.

He was honored not only for his past on-field accomplishments, but also his ability to move on from the past and learn from it


UserPostedImage
porky88
15 years ago
I don't have a problem with Chewy in the Packers Hall of Fame. I also believe one day Bubba Franks will be in the Packers Hall of Fame, which I don't have a problem with either.

You look at three out of four seasons where Chewy was one of the most important pieces to the Packer offense, whether it'd be as a blocker or receiver. He was reliable on the field. I believe his 1995 season was the best season a Packers' TE ever had. 679 is a Packer record correct?

You also have to remember that TEs have evolved the last decade. Finley will no doubt shatter those numbers, but Chewy shouldn't be punished based on the evolution of the position into the league.
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I think Paul Coffman had 814 yards in '83 as the most yards by a Tight End in Packers history.
UserPostedImage
15 years ago
The guy was essentially a starter for 4 years.
He made the Pro Bowl in 3 of them.
3 of the 4 years the Packers were in the NFC Chamiopship game winning it twice.
2 of those 4 years the Packers were in the Super Bowl winning one.
He was a huge contributor in big games.

His career was cut short by a cervical injury.

If longevity is your only criteria for greatness, some talented players like Gale Sayers would never be recognized or enshrined in Canton.

Any serious fan who watched Chmura's trial on Court TV, heard testimony regarding the female's hymen still being intact and saw the model of the bathroom in question assembled in the courtroom that showed that the girl's version of events was faulty, would understand how innocent the man is.

He may never do a coin toss at Lambeau Field but his exile is over. He does not deserve exile.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago

Based on his on field performance only?

So Lee and Franks are Pro Bowlers as well in Green Bay history? Comparable numbers...

Fact is.. Chmura was over-rated greatly in Green Bay..

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I missed this nugget. It's not a fact Chmura is/was over rated in Green Bay. I live in Green Bay and I don't remember or had any discussion where anyone anointed Chmura's great or anything other than someone who was above average. I recall quite a few people saying without Favre, we wouldn't know Chmura at all. I don't doubt that.

I'm sure some over rated him just as some thought Reggie Cobb was "great", but didn't have the OL to let him shine.

I know some under rated Chmura after his court case saying he was garbage, useless and a waste of roster spot anyhow so losing him doesn't matter.

So, no that is not a fact, that is your opinion of him being over rated. And according to the stats you provided, which you also indicated the * indicates Pro Bowl, no Lee was not a Pro Bowler. I think I missed your "tone" in that comment, not sure.



Thing is, Chmura played on a team that won a Super Bowl and was viewed as an important player on the team's success, which he was. That is why he's going into the Packers Hall of Fame. He helped return the title back to Titletown. Without a good blocking TE who was also a threat to catch over the middle, the running game would have slacked as would the slant passing attack which was a staple in the offense.

If the Packers weren't in the Super Bowl either of those year's, Chmura wouldn't be in the Packers Hall of Fame, in my opinion.

"pack93z" wrote:



Well for a person living in Green Bay from 1990 through 1995.. I can say he was over-rated... yes Zero you are not the only one that lived in Green Bay. ;)

Fact or opinion.. yeah improper use of fact.. in my opinion the fact was he was overrated. ;)

BTW.. I lived in Green Bay from 90-95 and then again in 99 into 2000...
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago

I suppose Chmura's numbers are comparable to Bubba's in a general sort of way (I'm not sure what Lee is doing in there, as he only had a couple of good seasons), but when you look at the yards per catch and yards per game, the difference is clear. Chmura was way more of an impact player. Bubba's TD's were nice, but he was basically a red zone specialist and not really what I would call a playmaker. Plus Chmura was on a Super Bowl winning team, and another team that made it to a Super Bowl. He deserves to be in.

"Greg C." wrote:



Chmura had three good seasons... Lee had two seasons of comparable production.. do I think Lee belongs.. absolutely not.. but kind of using it as a bench mark.

Do I think Chmura was a good player.. yes I do.. Hall worthy.. debatable at best. IMO.

Thing is, Chmura played on a team that won a Super Bowl and was viewed as an important player on the team's success, which he was. That is why he's going into the Packers Hall of Fame. He helped return the title back to Titletown. Without a good blocking TE who was also a threat to catch over the middle, the running game would have slacked as would the slant passing attack which was a staple in the offense.

"Zero" wrote:



Yes he helped bring back a championship to Green Bay.. so did 50 some other players that year.. do we elect all the "good" players from that year Zero?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
porky88
15 years ago
I got a step in on the Lee comparisons here. The season being mentioned as Lee's other good year is 2008. But he only averaged nearly eight yards per reception. That is not very good. Chewy never managed lower than 11 yards per reception over the course of his run as a starter in Green Bay.

Was he overrated?

He is by Packer fans, but I think you're underrating him when you compare him to Donald Lee.
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