Zero2Cool
15 years ago
8 Jones, 9 Kampman, I'm guessing you're including the playoff game right?
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all_about_da_packers
15 years ago

Well, maybe it's because I compare him to Kampy, who was just plain bad in that role and compared to Kampy, he looked solid.

"zombieslayer" wrote:




In Kampy's defense, he was terribly mismanaged by our coaches, namely our DC Capers.

In years past, Kampman's primary job has been to rush the passer. in 2007 his primary job was too pass-rush almost twice as much as defend the run. Even in 2008, his primary job was to pass-rush.

Come last season, the coaching staff had him primarily defending the run. In 232 snaps, his primary job was to defend the run, whereas only in 208 snaps was he primarily responsible for pass-rushing. Add to that, that in the first few weeks of the season he was being asked to drop into coverage quite a bit (ranging from 11% to 25% of total snaps played in the first four weeks) then it becomes apparent that he could've been put in better situations by the coaching staff.
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all_about_da_packers
15 years ago

8 Jones, 9 Kampman, I'm guessing you're including the playoff game right?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Yes. And I made a mistake: Jones had 10 QB pressures, 1 more than I originally listed.
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nerdmann
15 years ago

I'm expecting a big leap in Jones' second year. There is no reason to think otherwise. That he was even able to hold his own as an undersized rookie speaks volumes of his potential.

The statement early on in the article about "spending a high draft pick" is just shoddy journalism. Unless he means we should have taken an OLB in place of Bulaga, he has absolutely no case. There were NO high round OLBs left by the time our 2nd round pick came up.

I can't stand it when they try to make the same played out point without even looking at the facts. That's lazy writing.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:




First Jones was a rookie. Second, he's had a season to bulk up. Third, he's had an offseason to learn some moves. Fourth, he had 4 sacks in 7 games. That comes out to 8, possibly 9 in a full season. As a rookie. Before he had an offseason to bulk up and learn some moves. He was better than Kampman, imo.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago


In Kampy's defense, he was terribly mismanaged by our coaches, namely our DC Capers.

In years past, Kampman's primary job has been to rush the passer. in 2007 his primary job was too pass-rush almost twice as much as defend the run. Even in 2008, his primary job was to pass-rush.

Come last season, the coaching staff had him primarily defending the run. In 232 snaps, his primary job was to defend the run, whereas only in 208 snaps was he primarily responsible for pass-rushing. Add to that, that in the first few weeks of the season he was being asked to drop into coverage quite a bit (ranging from 11% to 25% of total snaps played in the first four weeks) then it becomes apparent that he could've been put in better situations by the coaching staff.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Kampy's one of my favorite players this decade.

It was a mismatch. Too big to defend the pass. Too small to play the line in a 3-4. He didn't belong in our system.

It's too bad, as he was hands down the best guy on the line, the only elite guy on our line, in the 4-3.

Wish the guy best on his new team.

And yes, I agree with you. We misused him (as well as him being a mismatch in our system). I don't think we could have changed the system enough though to make him fit.
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Pack93z
15 years ago


In Kampy's defense, he was terribly mismanaged by our coaches, namely our DC Capers.

In years past, Kampman's primary job has been to rush the passer. in 2007 his primary job was too pass-rush almost twice as much as defend the run. Even in 2008, his primary job was to pass-rush.

Come last season, the coaching staff had him primarily defending the run. In 232 snaps, his primary job was to defend the run, whereas only in 208 snaps was he primarily responsible for pass-rushing. Add to that, that in the first few weeks of the season he was being asked to drop into coverage quite a bit (ranging from 11% to 25% of total snaps played in the first four weeks) then it becomes apparent that he could've been put in better situations by the coaching staff.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Kampy's one of my favorite players this decade.

It was a mismatch. Too big to defend the pass. Too small to play the line in a 3-4. He didn't belong in our system.

It's too bad, as he was hands down the best guy on the line, the only elite guy on our line, in the 4-3.

Wish the guy best on his new team.

And yes, I agree with you. We misused him (as well as him being a mismatch in our system). I don't think we could have changed the system enough though to make him fit.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Hell yes we misused him.. and we should not have had any illusions on his fit into the system a couple weeks into the season.. hence why I openly campaigned for us to move him before the deadline last season.. we surely could have used another draft pick or two.. or player that fits the system.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Thinking about it now. I wouldn't have liked us trading Kampman last season. I like him and was hopeful the coaches were right. It would be easy to say now that we should have traded him. Which, for the team's sake, yes we definitely should have. I believe he was undersized a little for a DE in the 4-3 and wasn't comfortable standing up. I hate to say it, but I wonder if the backlash of trading another player who was admired greatly had any impact in not trading this one?
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Pack93z
15 years ago

Thinking about it now. I wouldn't have liked us trading Kampman last season. I like him and was hopeful the coaches were right. It would be easy to say now that we should have traded him. Which, for the team's sake, yes we definitely should have. I believe he was undersized a little for a DE in the 4-3 and wasn't comfortable standing up. I hate to say it, but I wonder if the backlash of trading another player who was admired greatly had any impact in not trading this one?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Why would the backlash be any greater than letting him walk in free agency?

Just for the record.. I was very open and posted it repeatedly right here about trading him then.. just to be clear that it isn't a hindsight comment based on where we are today with respect to Kampman.

I don't think looking back at last offseason with his reluctance to switch.. his struggle in adapting and his sudden drop in production that projecting into this offseason was pretty clear.

We would have either had to franchise him (keep or move him) or let him test free agency.. the injury removed the franchise option from the table on pure cost..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I think they banked too much on him making the transition successfully in part on hope they didn't have to trade another adored player away. Face it, we wouldn't have garnered that much for him since most knew why we'd be trading him. UNLESS we somehow got two teams into a bidding war.

I think trading him, without giving him a chance ... in many fan's eyes that would have been worse than the eventual outcome.
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Pack93z
15 years ago

I think they banked too much on him making the transition successfully in part on hope they didn't have to trade another adored player away. Face it, we wouldn't have garnered that much for him since most knew why we'd be trading him. UNLESS we somehow got two teams into a bidding war.

I think trading him, without giving him a chance ... in many fan's eyes that would have been worse than the eventual outcome.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



A mid round pick is more than we are probably going to see from him in a compensatory pick. But agreed.. we wouldn't have gotten a great deal on moving him.. not with one year left and him struggling.

I think if he would have openly embraced moving with some passion and still struggled.. I might not have held the same opinion.. but marry a struggling transition, a quiet reluctance to move and the fact that he has always been a good player for the Packers on and off the field.. I think I would have tried to move him to a team of his liking.. in a 4-3.

That is me.. and I think in the long run would have been the best for the Packers overall..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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