4PackGirl
14 years ago
nothing.
MontanaBob
14 years ago
Montana is right up there with Wisconsin and Texas for alcohol related deaths. Not nearly as many as we don't have near the population those states do, but per capita and per miles driven, Montana is near the top. Will the legislature do anything? Probably not. It's that "good ol' boy" attitude and "hey, drinking is a way of life here in Big Sky Country."

I say....give all DUI drivers a Toyota. Make them drink a bit, then put them out on some barren road and let 'em guess whether the car their driving is going to stop or not, before it hits a tree at 90 mph.
Anyone for a Weenie Roast?
Cheesey
14 years ago
Most people that have the "so what" attitude have never lost someone to a drunk driver. My wife lost her cousin. They were very close.
When i was a teen, i drank alot and drove my car. I thank God that i never killed anyone.
Most people think "I can drink and drive, i won't hurt anyone"....thats how i felt. I look back and think what might have been, and am so thankful.
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DakotaT
14 years ago
Isn't the monetary damage you do to yourself with fines, increased insurance, and risking your employment enough punishment that you don't need a so called righteous organization like MADD hunting you down like the Inquisition.

In my drinking days, I would drive home drunk, 3 or 4 times a week and never had a DUI or accident. I don't look at it as Divine Intervention, I just was able to maintain composure and get home. Am I proud of it, no, but it was just another phase in life to get through.

I don't think flooding our penitentiaries with drunk drivers solves any problems. Force them to do some hard time rehab, and pay for it themselves. No thirty days bull shit either, we're talking 90 days of forced sobriety. A person's mind starts clearing up... and then maybe some enlightement can seep in.
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zombieslayer
14 years ago
Speaking of mad MADD people, the head of the Santa Barbara chapter of MADD one night got drunk and drove her SUV off the cliff. And yet, Santa Barbara MADD was STILL calling her a hero for all her hard work against drunk driving.

Go figure.

I'm not for drunk driving by any means. But I'm also weary of some of the police state tactics we've been using to combat drunk drivers. Like blockades for instance where cops block downtown and ask everyone if they've been drinking.

I know a great way to cut down in the San Francisco area on drunk driving. Run BART, which is the SF area equivalent of the NYC subway 24/7. The stupid train stops at midnight. WTF? Bars close at 2.
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4PackGirl
14 years ago
nothing.
DakotaT
14 years ago

dakota - with 4 dui's, the only fine he had to pay was $2500. money meant nothing cuz his parents paid for everything.

they need to UP the fines tremendously AND take away licenses for a LONG period of time.

zombie - i know they are the ultimate liars & charmers but i STILL will never forgive myself. i knew what he was when i married him - he changed for awhile but in the end he's still the same selfish manipulative drunk i was married to. i should have known better.

"4PackGirl" wrote:



See I don't have a personal interest in this subject. Julie, I'm sorry your first husband was a shitass! But this subject is turning into a lynching party, and I just don't view it that way. The underlying problem with drinking is a cultural thing; and until we as a society make drinking uncool then it will always be there. I do not drink very often, but when I do indulge, I have a very good time. Addiction to alcohol is also a chemical thing. Some people are cursed with bad genetics, and become addicted through no real fault of their own.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
I have no problem with taking away the driving license of a multiple-offense drunk driver forever (or its actuarial equivalent, say 15 years).

Nor do I have a problem with making the first offense a four figure fine and a year revocation.

Nor do I have any problem with having a law against "vehicular homicide": If you put yourself in control of 200-300 horses of power, you are responsibile for the consequences when those horses stampede and kill your neighbor's child.

But what I object to is this notion that sending addicts/sociopaths/excessively-self-absorbed assholes to jail because their blood alcohol level is found to be 0.XXX is going to solve the problem.

If someone can't take the lesson of that first offense to heart, all the hammering them into jail, etc, isn't going to keep them from offending again. Because if they can't take that first lesson, their real problem isn't that they drink and drive. Their real problem is something worse. A problem that no amount of legislation or judicial toughness is going to be solving. The solution to those kinds of problems can only come from within, not without.

(Your ex sounds like one of those kinds of problems to me -- and no one other than he will ever solve his problems.)

Which brings me to the case of the "first offense." Or, more accurately, the "first time caught."

That's a different animal. But it's also an animal that we're never going to eliminate. All the education, all the nasty pictures of accidents I saw in high school, the knowledge that my parents and others whose opinion mattered to would come down on me harder than any law ever would (even now), didn't stop me from doing some really stupid things.

Fortunately for me, and fortunately for the world, we survived those moments of irresponsibility. Eventually the realization of possible consequences seeped in to my pinhead brain, and I stopped driving home on those occasions where I felt the need to over-indulge.

I was lucky. I came to that realization before I received a DUI or had an accident or any consequence worse than a horrible hangover and having to clean up puke.

But I also know a lot of people who never got that wakeup call until that first DUI. However harsh we make the penalty won't change that. And however harsh we make the penalty some people aren't going to get that wakeup call until they or someone else is dead. Magic bullets, education, adjudication, legislation, social ostracism -- that's just the shit sandwich part of the world.

My personal belief is that the best thing we could do to prevent that first offense is to require everyone to spend a few weeks behind the bar, stone cold sober, during that period that starts about two hours before closing time and ends about an hour after ward. And maybe another few weeks doing happy hour behind the bar, also stone cold sober. That will open a lot of people's eyes in an "up close and personal" ways: Four martinis, or eight brews, "hale fellow and well met" -- these things look a lot different when you're standing behind the bar.

But that's not going to stop everyone. Nothing will. Alas.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Cheesey
14 years ago
Look at the ads on TV.....they glamorize drinking. "Drink this (beer, booze, whatever) and the hot babes will be all over you!!!"
How about some TRUTH in advertising???
Show a fat drunk guy, puking his guts out in the gutter. Yeah....that would sell alot of beers, hey?
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Formo
14 years ago

Sigh.

What if we just recognized life is inevitably going to have some fuckheads in it? And sometimes fuckheads are going to get away with, well, murder.

There are 300+ million people in this country. Most of them on the highway every day.

Take that "2 747-loads/week" stat. Okay, that's 700 people a week. Say they are distributed relatively evenly across the country. There are about 3 million out of those 300 million living in Iowa. If the 700 people a week number were correct that would mean 7/week are killed in Iowa.

It actually isn't that high...it's probably 1/3 of that or less. Actually, I'm betting there's less than 2/week killed in Iowa. That's 100/year.

Let's say your "castrate 'em and make 'em have an interlock device" strategies work beyond your wildest dreams. You cut drunk driving fatalities by half. You save 50 lives. Hooray for you.

At what cost? What does it cost to castrate a few hundred people? (Forget about the civil liberties. They're scum after all. They should be happy we don't send them to Gitmo. I'm just talking about the cost of the surgical procedure and the clean up/disposal crew.) What does it cost to buy several thousand interlock devices and a few hundred extra cops and enforcement officers and assistant DAs and social workers and goddamn lawyers to deal with all that.

Yeah, life sucks sometime. I've lost people I know and value to drunk drivers. Life is a shit sandwich that gets fed to good people when the bastards eat Chateaubriand.

But I don't care if you buy Kohler's top of the line toilet. You're not going to eliminate the shit of the world.

You're just going to have a bigger bill for your toilet.

"Wade" wrote:



So true. +1
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beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
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