Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

Dutch Government Collapses Amid Disagreement on Afghan Troop Withdrawal 
VOA News 20 February 2010

The prime minister of the Netherlands says the Dutch coalition government collapsed Saturday, when the two largest parties failed to agree on the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan this year.

Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende told reporters in the early hours of Saturday that the second-largest party in his coalition is quitting the government over irreconcilable differences on whether to extend the Netherlands' military mission in Afghanistan.

Mr. Balkenende's center-right Christian Democrats, the bigger partner in the coalition, proposed the idea of keeping a reduced force in place for a year past the August 2010 deadline.

But, Deputy Prime Minister Wouter Bos, whose Labor Party wants the Afghan mission to end on deadline, opposed the idea during hours of talks in The Hague.

The Balkenende government took office three years ago.

The prime minister made no mention of elections. However, the resignation of the Labor Party would leave his government with an unworkable majority.

Some information for this report provided by AP, AFP and Reuters


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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

Dutch government collapses over Afghan mission
 

By ARTHUR MAX, Associated Press Writer 40 mins ago

AMSTERDAM The Dutch coalition government collapsed Saturday over irreconcilable differences on whether to extend the Netherlands' military mission in Afghanistan.

Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende announced that the second largest party in his three-party alliance is quitting, in a breakdown of trust in what had always been an uneasy partnership.

Balkenende made no mention of elections as he spoke to reporters after a 16-hour Cabinet meeting in The Hague that ended close to dawn.

However, the resignation of the Labor Party would leave his government with an unworkable majority, and political analysts said early elections appeared inevitable.

Balkenende said his Christian Democratic Alliance would continue in office together with the small Christian Union, and would "make available" Labor's cabinet seats. But he did not spell out his intentions.

The coalition, elected to a four-year term, marks its third year in office on Monday.

"Where there is no trust, it is difficult to work together. There is no road along which this cabinet to go further," Balkenende said.

The political outcome also left uncertainty over the fate of the 1,600 Dutch soldiers in the southern Afghan province of Uruzgan, where they were deployed in 2006 for a two-year stint that was extended until next August.
Labor demanded that Dutch troops leave Uruzgan as scheduled.

Balkenende's Christian Democratic Alliance wanted to keep a trimmed down military presence in the restive province, where 21 soldiers have been killed.

"A plan was agreed to when our soldiers went to Afghanistan," said Labor Party leader Wouter Bos. "Our partners in the government didn't want to stick to that plan, and on the basis of their refusal we have decided to resign from this government."

NATO recently sent a letter to the government asking if it would consider staying longer a move that the Western alliance normally would do only if it had a clear signal of agreement.

"The future of the mission of our soldiers in Afghanistan will now be in the hands of the new Cabinet," said Deputy Defense Minister Jack de Vries.
The split came after a buildup of tension over several weeks between Balkenende and Bos, the finance minister, mainly over Afghanistan and the government's earlier political support for the war in Iraq.

"This is the end of this cabinet," said Andre Rouvoet, leader of the third coalition party. He said Queen Beatrix, Holland's ceremonial head of state who will formally accept the resignations of the Labor ministers on Saturday, "will ask the remaining ministers to prepare for elections."
It was an uncomfortable alliance of convenience from the start, with the Balkenende and Bos exchanging unusually sharp barbs during the 2006 election campaign.

The acrimony surfaced again during a parliamentary debate Thursday over Afghanistan, with the two government leaders in open discord in the face of concerted attacks by the opposition parties.

Opinion polls suggest the Afghan war is deeply unpopular. Labor, which has been dropping in the polls, appeared determined to take a stand with next month's scheduled local elections in mind.

Bert Koenders, the Labor minister for overseas development aid, said his party was abiding by the government's promise when it prolonged the Afghanistan mission last time that it would be the last extension.
"We are sticking the Cabinet decision of two years ago," he said.

An election within the next few months could see a further rise in power of the extreme anti-immigrant populist Geert Wilders, whose ranking in the polls rivals Balkenende's.

Balkenende has been prime minister since 2002, but he resigned twice before because of the country's fractious political alignments.

___
Associated Press Writer Bruce Mutsvairo contributed to this report.


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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Oh. I see Rock scooped me.

Ah, well. Can't win 'em all.
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Rockmolder
15 years ago

Oh. I see Rock scooped me.

Ah, well. Can't win 'em all.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Untill Z2C cleared the chat again. ::lol:

Like the article states, it's the 3rd time in just 8 years that this happens.

An election within the next few months could see a further rise in power of the extreme anti-immigrant populist Geert Wilders, whose ranking in the polls rivals Balkenende's.



That's one of the things that scares me most. The guy is as anti-Islam as they come. And that's pretty much all what he has been going on for the last 5 years. Apparently, that's what a reasonable large part of the country wants, though.

Still, if he doesn't get the majority of the votes, I have a hard time seeing his party form a coalition with anyone. He's been alienating himself since he got into politics.

At least I can actually vote this time. Lol.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
15 years ago
Bummer.

Is the commitment of troops for two years or are the individual soldiers there for two years?
An individual soldier should not have to be there for more than a year. That is a long time to be away from home. Two is too much to ask.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Oh. I see Rock scooped me.

Ah, well. Can't win 'em all.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Untill Z2C cleared the chat again. ::lol:

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



That's a huge misconception. It's NOT a chat, its a shout box. We do have a chat room and we do have a discussion board (ie HERE). 🙂

It's kind of moronic to have a discussion in the shoutbox from my view because when I pop in it's a bitch to follow along with and comment on, as it is a shout box, not a chat box.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

Bummer.

Is the commitment of troops for two years or are the individual soldiers there for two years?
An individual soldier should not have to be there for more than a year. That is a long time to be away from home. Two is too much to ask.

"wpr" wrote:



I've never served, so I probably should shut up on this one. But I've long wondered about the "one-year tour" idea. Am I correct that this was a McNamara/Vietnam-era innovation? I ask because I remember tales from my father and his WWII contemporaries that they signed up "for the duration." (He put in close to 6 years in the Army Air Corps, mostly in Africa and Southern Europe.)

Now I get that "times have changed," WWII was a different sort of war, etc., etc. To paraphrase Clausewitz, we pursue politics through "other means" differently nowadays.

But I wonder, does the "one year tour" approach make it easier -- perhaps too easy -- for the political types to engage in armed conflict.

Certainly I can imagine it being more difficult to obtain volunteers to go to, well, wherever.

Just a thought.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
15 years ago
Yep it is "easier" and yep it was a different kind of war (WWII). I have said for the past year that we (military personnel and family) are better off than those men and women those sacrificed so much during WWII and Korea. It is hard to imagine what they went through.
While many of them volunteered as well, it is extremely difficult today to have a viable army if the soldiers are going in for the "duration". Too many politics involved.
Even though he was overseas for only one year, my son lost 3 years of college more or less and he is in the National Guard not regular army. His high school classmates have all graduated college (or are on the 5-6 year plan.) At 23 he is basically taking freshman level classes once again.

But we digress from the purpose of this thread.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

Yep it is "easier" and yep it was a different kind of war (WWII). I have said for the past year that we (military personnel and family) are better off than those men and women those sacrificed so much during WWII and Korea. It is hard to imagine what they went through.
While many of them volunteered as well, it is extremely difficult today to have a viable army if the soldiers are going in for the "duration". Too many politics involved.
Even though he was overseas for only one year, my son lost 3 years of college more or less and he is in the National Guard not regular army. His high school classmates have all graduated college (or are on the 5-6 year plan.) At 23 he is basically taking freshman level classes once again.

But we digress from the purpose of this thread.

"wpr" wrote:



Just to digress a bit further (I'm a academic, digressing is what I do. 🙂 )...I'd rather have more of your 23-year olds with that experience in my classes than 18-year olds without it.

(Even as I wish no one had to get such experience anymore.)

But mostly I was suggesting one of those "unintended consequences". Politically, you aren't going to get volunteers without the one-year limitation. But the consequence is that you make it easier for the politicians to go to war, and end up with more 18-year olds having to do more hitches.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
15 years ago

Yep it is "easier" and yep it was a different kind of war (WWII). I have said for the past year that we (military personnel and family) are better off than those men and women those sacrificed so much during WWII and Korea. It is hard to imagine what they went through.
While many of them volunteered as well, it is extremely difficult today to have a viable army if the soldiers are going in for the "duration". Too many politics involved.
Even though he was overseas for only one year, my son lost 3 years of college more or less and he is in the National Guard not regular army. His high school classmates have all graduated college (or are on the 5-6 year plan.) At 23 he is basically taking freshman level classes once again.

But we digress from the purpose of this thread.

"Wade" wrote:



Just to digress a bit further (I'm a academic, digressing is what I do. 🙂 )...I'd rather have more of your 23-year olds with that experience in my classes than 18-year olds without it.

(Even as I wish no one had to get such experience anymore.)

But mostly I was suggesting one of those "unintended consequences". Politically, you aren't going to get volunteers without the one-year limitation. But the consequence is that you make it easier for the politicians to go to war, and end up with more 18-year olds having to do more hitches.

"wpr" wrote:



I will continue the digression. I can not tell you how frustrating it is to my son to be in a freshmen level class and get a relatively simple task done in 20-30 minutes during class and the 18 yr old haven't even begun. They are still asking the instructor questions that have no bearing on the task at hand.
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