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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I will agree that I have a lot of respect for Ford for not taking a bailout and for preserving their independence in these troubled times. As far as I'm concerned, America would be best served if the rest of the Big Three went the way of the dodo, thereby paving the way for smaller, more agile automobile companies to arise and compete with the Tatas, Geelys, and MDIs of the world, which are going to overtake the Big Three within the next decade through sheer affordability and momentum regardless of how lavishly we bail out our antiquated manufacturing infrastructure.
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Speaking of MDI and Tata:

AUTOMOTIVE
Zero Pollution compressed Air Car set for U.S. launch in 2010
 

By Loz Blain

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15:03 February 28, 2008 PST

The Zero-Pollution MDI Air Car, invented in France and licensed by Tata Motors in India, is coming to American shores. Zero Pollution Motors have announced they will begin taking reservations for the first U.S. deliveries in the next couple of months, but it will be 2010 before Americans get their first taste of the ingenious compressed-air motor, which runs to 35mph entirely on air, or uses a trickle of petrol to heat and compress more air to reach higher speeds up to 90mph. It'll cost next to nothing to run (how do 30,000km service intervals sound?), have a range of up to 1000 miles, and retail for well under US$20,000.

We've written before about the promising potential of compressed air as the next energy storage medium for road cars, and it seems the concept is starting to gather some serious momentum. After signing a mass-production agreement with India's largest auto manufacturer, Zero Pollution has announced the beginning of a marketing push into the U.S.A.

Pre-orders for the air car will be taken in early 2008 on the Zero Pollution website, and initial U.S. deliveries for a 6-seater, 4-door, 75 hp, dual-energy MDI Air Car are anticipated for 2010.

The air car has also been one of the first entries in the multi-million dollar Automotive XPrize competition , which aims to reward innovators and inspire a new generation of super-efficient, 100mph+ vehicles to help free mankind from its oil addiction.

Check out our original look at the air car  for more information on the amazing multifunction compressed air engine, as well as more information about the air car's development.


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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

ECOGIZMO
French auto runs on compressed air technology 

By Gizmag Team

22:00 November 1, 2004 PST
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French engineers have designed a low consumption and low pollution engine for urban motoring that runs on compressed air technology. The CATS (Compressed Air Technology System) "air car" from Motor Development International is a significant step for zero-emission transport, delivering a compressed air-driven vehicle that is safe, quiet, has a top speed of 110 km/h and a range of 200 km. Costing next to nothing to run, the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) range - which includes a pick-up truck and van - is set for release in early 2005.

Cyril Ngre is the head of Research and Development at Moteur Developement International (MDI) cars, where the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) prototype has been in production since 1994. The two-stroke engine is powered by compressed air stored in tanks at about 150 times the pressure of tyres on a car. The expansion of the compressed air drives the pistons to create movement, replacing the burning of fossil fuel in a conventional engine. In an air-refilling station (currently unavailable as service stations have not been fitted yet) it is estimated to take between three and four minutes to re-fuel. At home, with a 220V plug, it takes three and a half hours.

Ngre estimates a full tank of air will cost around 1.50 euros to fill and that the extra reward is knowing that you are pumping nothing harmful into the atmosphere. The hidden environmental cost with the CATS is that electricity must still be generated and the means of that production may still employ fossil fuels that discharge pollutants. Still, the savings to the pocket and environment appear well worth investigating. Four models are available for the commercial market - the MiniCAT car at approximately 6 860 euros, or the CitiCATs, including a taxi (with room for up to 5 passengers), a Pick-Up truck and a van, all retailing for approximately 9,460 euros plus taxes.

Air powered engine

This engine uses an innovative system to control the movement of the 2nd generation pistons and one single crankshaft. The pistons work in two stages: one motor stage and one intermediate stage of compression/expansion. The engine has 4 two-stage pistons, i.e. 8 compression and/or expansion chambers. They have two functions: to compress ambient air and refill the storage tanks; and to make successive expansions (reheating air with ambient thermal energy) thereby approaching isothermic expansion. Its steering-wheel is equipped with a 5kW electric moto-alternator. This motor is simultaneously:

the motor to compress air the starting motor the alternator for recharging the battery an electric moderator/brake a temporary power supply (e.g. for parking)

No clutch is necessary. The engine is idle when the car is stationary and the vehicle is started by the magnetic plate, which re-engages the compressed air. Parking manoeuvres are powered by the electric motor. The CATs 34 P04 engine is equipped with patented variable-volume butts and a dynamic variable-volume volumetric reducer.

The dual energy system

The Series 34 CATs engines can be equipped with and run on dual energies - fossil fuels and compressed air - and incorporate a reheating mechanism (a continuous combustion system, easily controlled to minimise pollution) between the storage tank and the engine. This mechanism allows the engine to run exclusively on fossil fuel, which permits compatible autonomy on the road. While the car is running on fossil fuel, the compressor refills the compressed air tanks. The control system maintains a zero-pollution emission in the city at speeds up to 60 km/h. The MDI con-rod system allows the piston to be held at Top Dead Centre for 70 of the cycle.This way, enough time is given to create the pressure in the cylinder. The torque is also better so the force exerted on the crankshaft is less substantial than in a classic system.

Gear changes are automatic, powered by an electronic system developed by MDI. A computer which controls the speed of the car is effectively continuously changing gears . The latest of many previous versions, this gearbox achieves the objective of seamless changes and mimimal energy consumption.

Safety Concerns

Air powered vehicles have a long history of use in Europe but were discontinued for safety and efficiency reasons. The CATS air cars have undergone stringent safety testing for modern conditions and requirements and appear to have conquered the concerns of air compression engines.

The CATS air tanks store 90m3 of air at 300 bars of pressure (four tanks have a capacity of 90 litres, and they store 90m3 of air at a pressure of 300 bars), just like tanks already used to carry liquefied gases on some urban buses. That means that the tanks are prepared and certified to carry an explosive product: methane gas.

In the case of an accident with air tank breakage, there would be no explosion or shattering because the tanks are not metallic but made of glass fibre. The tanks would crack longitudinally, and the air would escape, causing a strong buzzing sound with no dangerous factor. It is clear that if this technology has been tested and prepared to carry an inflammable and explosive gas, it can also be used to carry air.

In order to avoid the so-called 'rocket effect', this means to avoid the air escaping through one of the tank's extremities causing a pressure leak that could move the car, MDI made a small but important change in the design. Where the valve on the buses' tanks are placed on one of the extremities, MDI has placed the valve in the middle of the tank reducing the 'rocket effect' to a minimum.

Availability

The CATS air cars are at the final approval stage and advance orders are being taken with a release date towards the end of 2004/early 2005.


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zombieslayer
14 years ago

I know Foster and 93z are GM/Chevy guys (at least, anti-Ford guys).. But I'm with Zombie on this 'debate'.

What put me over the edge you ask? Ford was the ONE major motor company that DIDN'T get/ask for a bail out. Also, GM's owned by the gov'ment. No thanks, even if it breaks down a bit more often, I'll take a Ford over a GM ANY day. ... lol Says the guy that drives a '98 Chevy Cavalier. lol

"Formo" wrote:



Let's not forget that Ford is also the most environmentally correct car company in existence, something that matters to me. They have the largest green roof in the entire freaking world. Their foam is made of soy. I could go on and on about what they do for the environment.

But what Formo said is huge. I strongly think we shouldn't have bailed out anyone, especially the banks. We rewarded these assholes for failure and they took bonus money out of OUR tax money.

Ford didn't take a penny, because they had the foresight to see what was going on and planned accordingly.

And for the record, a Ford Taurus was hands down the best car I've ever owned.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Serious question for you, Formo. What makes a car more "environmentally correct"?

And, in the interest of being totally upfront, here's why I ask. We have many examples in history when "resource saving" innovations have led to, paradoxically, more resource use rather than less.

Assuming Ford is the greenest car in the world. And assuming everyone loves green. Could a world where everyone drives green be a world where we use more in total of the wrong resources rather than less?

:)
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Actually, the most "environmentally friendly" thing one can do is buy a used car. Yes, you'll burn a little more gas, but over the lifetime of the car, the extra fuel used will be more than compensated by the reduction in resources used to manufacture the car.
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Pack93z
14 years ago



But what Formo said is huge. I strongly think we shouldn't have bailed out anyone, especially the banks. We rewarded these assholes for failure and they took bonus money out of OUR tax money.
.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



+1 ... especially the banks.. now by bailing those friggin assholes out we have delayed the recovery efforts long term.. why?

Because these friggin fuck ups will get themselves back into a pinch again because of two reasons..

1.They are greedy and will over extend their risk again.

2. They will think "we the people" are too afraid to let them flop..

But no.. we were sold this buyout on fear and because it was an election year, everybody backed the bailout bill on pure fear that none of the friggin assholes would get re-elected again.

Don't think the banks will get over leveraged again.. just take a look at the bonus structure they paid out with "our" tax money.. they learned very little.

At the very least, the Automotive group seems to have learned a little and reorganized their structure to solidify themselves financially by reducing the offering, streamlining their supplier chains and feeder plants.

Whether they make it or not and keep themselves profitable remains to be seen.. in other words.. until greed creeps in again.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
14 years ago
On a similar note...


Calls on Congress to pass the federal Right to Repair Act

New data reveals that consumers save an estimated $26 billion a year or $360 per family for vehicle service and repair at neighborhood independent repair shops compared to more costly new car dealerships. This demonstrates why Congress needs to swiftly pass the Motor Vehicle Owners Right to Repair Act (HR 2057). This legislation will prevent car manufacturers from denying access to repair information, computer codes, tools and software needed by car owners and their neighborhood repair shops to repair late model vehicles.

Historically, car owners have had the ability to repair their vehicles themselves or take them to the service facility of their choice. The car companies now seek to force consumers to return to the dealership for service and repair and are lobbying heavily against the Right to Repair Act. It is appalling that some manufacturers can take federal bailout money and then turn around and oppose a bill that would protect every American motorist from a vehicle repair monopoly.

The Motor Vehicle Owners Right to Repair Act (HR 2057) currently has the support of 53 members of Congress. Every consumer who owns or operates a vehicle in the U.S. stands to suffer economically if this bill is not passed. Please send a letter urging your members of Congress to support the Right to Repair Act by visiting www.righttorepair.org.

Kathleen Schmatz, president and CEO, Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association (AAIA), Bethesda, MD


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
14 years ago
Well said Pack. :thumbright:

Non and Wade - I was actually more talking about the plants themselves. Here's a link if you want to know more:
http://www.greenroofs.org/index.php/grhccommittees/290?task=view 

Green roofs are one of the best thigns for the environment for a bunch of reasons. You may have heard of the urban warming effect (generally called the "heat island effect"). It significantly helps reduce that. Plus, it lowers energy consumption as they're simply around 25% more energy efficient than regular roofs. They also reduce rainwater runoff as well as filter pollutants out of rainwater. Plus, urban areas are known to be horrible for wildlife. Green roofs help counteract that. I don't want to get into details but it's worth researching those benefits alone as I at least find them interesting.

From an economic perspective, like I already mentioned, they'll cut down on energy costs significantly.

That's the main thing about that one plant but there are a lot more environmental things they do. So once again, hats off to Ford. I wish other companies would have this much environmental responsibility for the products they create.

And yes, buying a used car beats all that but I for one love to buy a new car then run it until it dies. That's just me though.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago

Well said Pack. :thumbright:

Non and Wade - I was actually more talking about the plants themselves. Here's a link if you want to know more:
http://www.greenroofs.org/index.php/grhccommittees/290?task=view 

Green roofs are one of the best thigns for the environment for a bunch of reasons. You may have heard of the urban warming effect (generally called the "heat island effect"). It significantly helps reduce that. Plus, it lowers energy consumption as they're simply around 25% more energy efficient than regular roofs. They also reduce rainwater runoff as well as filter pollutants out of rainwater. Plus, urban areas are known to be horrible for wildlife. Green roofs help counteract that. I don't want to get into details but it's worth researching those benefits alone as I at least find them interesting.

From an economic perspective, like I already mentioned, they'll cut down on energy costs significantly.

That's the main thing about that one plant but there are a lot more environmental things they do. So once again, hats off to Ford. I wish other companies would have this much environmental responsibility for the products they create.

And yes, buying a used car beats all that but I for one love to buy a new car then run it until it dies. That's just me though.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



But the paradox of efficiency might apply to plants, too. If we build enough more green plants than we would have built of the non-green versions, we could still end up using more resources total.

(Sometimes economics is just a pain in the ass.)
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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TheKanataThrilla (1h) : That was terrible.
TheKanataThrilla (1h) : Watching that game in its entirety yesterday is proof positive that I am a football addict.
beast (2h) : And horrible time management multiple times... and not being able to score more than 3 points on a team with talent
beast (2h) : Realizing the Bears didn't fix it from the previous week and do the same thing, getting the game to overtime
beast (2h) : They probably are not tanking, but they've absolutely mismanagement some things, such as Vikings seeing the Packers blocked FG and realizing
Zero2Cool (3h) : Crazy of Bears to have that mindset that is
Zero2Cool (3h) : Hail Mary stop away from 5 - 2. Not sure how that flips to tanking. Crazy mindset if true
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wpr (6h) : Watching bares fans melt down over how putrid their team is, so enjoyable. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Mucky Tundra (13h) : The Seattle Seahawks defeat the Chicago Bears 6-3. Jason Myers had 6 RBIs for Seattle while Cairo Santos had 3 RBI for Chicago
beast (14h) : Not nessarily, he might of been injured either way. He's playing about 50% of the games the last 4 years
Zero2Cool (20h) : If they'd been more patient with him, he'd be back already. Putting him out there vs Bears caused him to tweak it and here we are.
packerfanoutwest (21h) : well this is his last season with the PAck, book it
beast (22h) : Sounds like no Alexander (again), I'm wondering if his time with the Packers is done
Zero2Cool (26-Dec) : Could ban beast and I still don't think anyone catches him.
Mucky Tundra (26-Dec) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore
packerfanoutwest (25-Dec) : Feliz Navidad!
Zero2Cool (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas!
beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
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