Cheesey
15 years ago
It's not gonna change. Look how hard it is for the NFL to agree on ANYTHING. To overhaul the playoff system that much.....i can't see the owners EVER coming together on this.
UserPostedImage
mi_keys
15 years ago

mi_keys: You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, but you lost me right at the beginning by saying that fairness should not matter. If you throw the idea of fairness out the window, then you can justify any playoff system.

The situation you describe in your second-to-last paragraph seems pretty rare to me. At any rate, I would expect that in the system that Vandermause proposes, if two teams have the same record and one of them won the division, the division winner would get home field. So those games would still matter.

"Greg C." wrote:



Thank you for being the only one to respond to my post.

That said, I'm not saying fairness should be completely ignored, I am saying it is not the only and possibly not even the most important factor in deciding a playoff seeding system. Most playoff seeding systems have a large degree of fairness and some inequities and that's why I think you need to consider other things such as strengthening the meaning of the division.

In my example, two teams in one division can't possibly finish behind the two teams in the other division. Under Vandermause, they know they will be the 3rd and 4th seeds and get the wild card home game. Likewise, the two in the other division know they will be the 5th and 6th seeds and thus away in the first round of the playoffs. Under the current system the teams in the same division need to win because they need to win their division to have a home field game.

Also, don't assume that is the only scenario in which Vandermause's proposed system would end up with meaningless games at the end of the season. The point was to give an example that is no less likely than the specific example we've run into this year and to suggest that any reductions in the number of games that are meaningless at the end of the year would be minimal at best.
Born and bred a cheesehead
RaiderPride
15 years ago
Not to mention the lost revenue for the city of Green Bay and the business owners and employees of Green Bay.

A home game would have brought a great deal of money to Green Bay.
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
Cheesey
15 years ago
True R.P.
But in the future, it could just as easily take away a home playoff game from GB if the roles were reversed.
UserPostedImage
mi_keys
15 years ago

Give the divisional games real meaning beyond mere rivalry pride. Right now they're of essentially ancillary, symbolic importance at best. A team could conceivably lose every game in the division and still be crowned division winner. That makes no sense to me.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Division games are the most important regular season games you have. The easiest way to get into the playoffs and have a good seed is to win the division and that's hard to do if you don't win your division games. They are the most important tiebreaker. You are understating their importance to say they are just symbolic.
Born and bred a cheesehead
mi_keys
15 years ago

Fairness is a funny thing.

Do we really believe that the best determinant of a team's strength is W/L record when they don't have completely common opponents. It makes sense for a division winner, since the majority of a divisional rival's opponents is the same. But beyond that, I'm not sure.

I mean, if it was just a matter of W/L record, why do we have everyone and their mother going off about "power ratings" and such?

The nice thing about W/L record is that it is an easy number to read. It is not, however, an easy number to interpret. Or rather, it doesn't contain as much information about "what's fair" or "who's best" as people like Vandermause think.

JMO

"Wade" wrote:



A fair point, but as you point out W/L is the easiest to read and it should have a very strong correlation with how strong a team is. It's a causal relationship, the better you are the more you'll win. Obviously if someone has tougher schedule or bad luck, there will be variability. But it's the simplest model and generally does a pretty good job of picking better teams. As for the power rankings, people play around with those because they're fun.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

I don't like the rules, too, but unfortunately that are the rules. And if you're a hot team, you don't care about playing at home or not. The Steelers (#6) made it to Vince, so will the Packers :D

Originally Posted by: GermanGilbert 



GermanGilbert was spot on!
UserPostedImage
Emeraldgreen
4 years ago
I'm a long time fan of the NFL, and to me I want to be fair for all. The object of playing each season is to win as many games as possible, and then go to the playoffs. Now, I have a serious issue when it comes to wins versus division winners. I hate this rule. A team with a losing record who happens to win their division gets into the playoffs automatic. Such as the case this season in the NFC EAST. All 4 teams have losing records. But then there are teams with much better records than this team, and they don't go to the playoffs/ Then what's the use of winning all the games if your going to be knocked out by a losing team? Ok so what big deal, you won your division because the other 3 teams are worse than you. But because you win your division that makes you guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, and the team who worked and played to win, and did win more games, and they sit out, no way something is terribly wrong with that concept.
If a team has the best record in their division , yes that team can be granted division winners, but don't let a team who worked hard and win more games than your team and then be shut out???
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
4 years ago
In general it doesn't make sense to let a divisional winner into the playoffs with a losing record. For the most part I have advocated that teams should have a winning record in order to make the playoffs. At the very least be 8-8.

That said, in 2010 Seattle made the playoffs with a 7-9 record. Because they won the west they hosted NOLA. At 11-5 some people felt they were the 2nd best team in the NFC that year even though the 11-5 Bears got the first round bye. When Seattle beat the Saints and GB beat the Eagles, it changed the whole playoffs. Ever since then I have not minded when weak divisional winners make the playoffs. They "won" based on the system that is in place.

In order to alleviate this from happening the NFL needs fewer divisions with more teams. The issue becomes attempting to balance everything. They can't have 3 divisions of 5 without losing 2 teams. If they expand and have 3 divisions of 6 you would not see weak teams with losing records make the playoffs. The issue would then become how do you play every team in your division twice and still play other teams not only in your conference but also have non conference games too.

It can be done if 6th place teams face each other and so one. If they do this there is a downside. The weakest teams will have a very weak schedule the following year. When the NFL did this years ago Atlanta made it to the Super Bowl. A couple of other teams have gone from last to first then disappear again. I think the 2006 Bears team had a very easy schedule too after a very bad 2005 season.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
4 years ago
I think a lot of people complain about the seeding and complaints will always be discovered because there really isn't a flawless strategy. How could there be?

Personally, I haven't liked four team divisions. I think it devalues winning the division. I'm not saying this is the, just saying I'd like it.

Two Conferences
Four Divisions
Eight Teams / Division

Each team plays their divisional opponents twice. Each team plays the opposite conference division opponent where they finished and alternate divisions each year. (if they go 17 games, you just add another matchup)

It'll make those who like seeing AFC vs NFC matchups every 4 years cry, but I don't really care. They are gonna cry anyway.

Then the division winners get a BYE week. Each conference gets four wild card teams.

Or some shit like that.


UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (7h) : Will there be a tracker on the ball or something?
Zero2Cool (10h) : uh oh
Martha Careful (10h) : Too bad camera's can't spot the ball as well.
Mucky Tundra (12h) : So will the chain gang be gone completely or will they still be around as a backup or whatever?
Zero2Cool (12h) : The method for measuring first downs in the NFL will switch from chain gangs to camera-based technology in 2025, the league announced.
Martha Careful (16h) : A big step in the right direction. Just put in the college system is very very good.
Zero2Cool (18h) : NFL has passed a rule that allows both teams to possess the ball in OT during the regular season
Zero2Cool (18h) : Touchbacks on kickoffs will now bring the ball to the 35-yard line.
beast (31-Mar) : It might of gotten more popular recently, but braiding hair (even men) in certain cultures goes back for centuries.
Martha Careful (30-Mar) : Is men braiding their hair a new style thing? Watching the NCAA men's tournament many players have done
Zero2Cool (29-Mar) : Ha. Well, it'd be nice for folks to reset their own password. Via validated email 😏
beast (29-Mar) : Monopoly was supposed to be an educational game, that show how evil capitalism was and how we should avoid it
beast (29-Mar) : Lol, I was thinking username would be better, as then I wouldn't have to keep an email up to date lol 😂
beast (29-Mar) : Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : I was thinking email because I think it'll make folks keep it up todate lol
wpr (29-Mar) : sure is
Zero2Cool (29-Mar) : Monopoly is a rip off of The Landlord's Game
wpr (27-Mar) : 28 days until the draft
earthquake (27-Mar) : Which seemed strange to my 9 year old self, that you could be a fan for a team other than the one you play for
earthquake (27-Mar) : Nothing eventful happened, other than it being clear that he was a bengals fan
earthquake (27-Mar) : And we went and hung out with him one afternoon, I must have been 9 or so
earthquake (27-Mar) : That’s wild, when I was a kid my friend lived in the same apartment complex in De Pere
Mucky Tundra (27-Mar) : Only career highspot was a 200 yard rushing game while playing for the Cardinals
Mucky Tundra (27-Mar) : He is a former Packer. Drafted out of Northern Illinois. Didn't do much in GB.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Despicable
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Former NFL. I think Packers too
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : NFL RB Leshon Johnson has been charged in a massive dog fighting operation, with the FBI seizing over 190 Pit Bulls
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : Some real irony of a QB as short as Wilson playing for the Giants
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : Giants country, let's be the tall beings of lore!
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : Russell Wilson signs with the Giants.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : I was thinking email because I think it'll make folks keep it up todate lol
wpr (25-Mar) : I don't think there is a significant difference. I use a user name for many. Others email.
Martha Careful (25-Mar) : email
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : would it be better to use EMAIL or USERNAME to log into a site?
wpr (25-Mar) : Thanks Zero
Zero2Cool (24-Mar) : New forum has the ability to Thank a post now.
beast (24-Mar) : And the only time they have won the Championship in an even year, was the first time they did, in 2006.
beast (24-Mar) : Since 2007, there have been 10 odd numbered years, Wisconsin Women have won the Championship in 7 of those 10 odd numbered years.
buckeyepackfan (24-Mar) : Congratulations Lady Badger Hockey Team. NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!
Zero2Cool (23-Mar) : I don't think it's completed yet. it was just announced last month, right?
dhazer (23-Mar) : did netflix ever release the Packers documentary
Zero2Cool (21-Mar) : And it is glorious!
beast (21-Mar) : Unsigned FA QB Rodgers is supposedly in the Steelers building
Martha Careful (19-Mar) : But I don't own a car! So can I still use it in my apartment?
Zero2Cool (19-Mar) : btw, new site auto updates
Zero2Cool (19-Mar) : Woohoo!
TheKanataThrilla (19-Mar) : Oops I guess I should have updated the site before posting
TheKanataThrilla (19-Mar) : Jeremy Fowler @JFowlerESPN · Follow Source: Free agent WR/return specialist Mecole Hardman is signing with the #Packers on a one-year deal.
Zero2Cool (18-Mar) : Former Packers wide receiver Bob Long, who stayed in Wisconsin after playing days, dies at age 83
Martha Careful (17-Mar) : PFOW, Pati O'Furniture
wpr (17-Mar) : Thanks dfosterf. Been a while since I heard the song.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
Eagles
Recent Topics
12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

14h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

31-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

30-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

29-Mar / Random Babble / wpr

28-Mar / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / dfosterf

28-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

26-Mar / Random Babble / Mucky Tundra

25-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

24-Mar / Random Babble / packerfanoutwest

24-Mar / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

21-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

19-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

19-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.