Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

Eli for MVP? Its not as crazy as it sounds 

Giants quarterback has kept his team in contention with little support


OPINION

By Mike Celizic | NBCSports.com contributor

updated 1:16 a.m. CT, Mon., Dec . 21, 2009

Theres still a shot for the Giants to make the playoffs, and if they beat Washington, Carolina and Minnesota to do it, let me be the first to start the campaign.

Eli Manning for MVP.

Go ahead and say that suggesting Manning the Younger could be a more deserving MVP candidate than his big brother, grizzled old Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers or Donovan McNabb is like taking the rice cakes over the aged prime rib. Ill understand, because when the idea was first suggested to me, I thought the same thing.

But if you look at what the Giants have to work with, you have to admit theres merit to the idea. In a year in which the Giants defense has played worse in each succeeding week, Eli Manning has without any fanfare been putting together the best season of his six-year career. Despite a month-long losing streak, the 7-6 Giants still have a shot at the postseason, and its all because of Eli Manning.

Im not suggesting hes the best quarterback in the league. Even Im not that foolish. But were talking most valuable here, not best. And the reality is that the only way the Giants are getting into the playoffs is if Eli puts them on his shoulders and drags them there.

Im not going to say that automatically makes him more valuable than Favre, Brees, Rivers, McNabb, Brady and Peyton have been to their teams. But it sure puts him in the discussion. The guy is that good.

Before you guffaw at that, picture him in a Dallas uniform for the past six years. If you dont think the Cowboys would have won some playoff games, youre not being honest.

Eli isnt leading the league in anything, but hes among the leaders in most categories. With 23 touchdown passes, hes one behind his career high, and he has thrown just 11 interceptions. His yards per attempt are at a career high of 8, 1.2 yards better than hes ever done before. His 60.4 completion percentage is also a career high, as is his 93.0 quarterback rating.

Quarterback ratings are probably the most abused and least telling stat ever concocted by the numbers wonks. If you go strictly by ratings, Aaron Rodgers is the fourth-best quarterback in the league and Matt Schaub is the seventh-best, ahead of Tony Romo, Brady, McNabb, Eli and Kurt Warner.

In Elis case, the rating is only an indication of the improvement hes shown. His previous best number was last years 86.4, and to jump to 93.0 is a considerable increase. It reflects his improved completion percentage and his higher yardage per attempt.

Before the season started, the Giants laid a $97.5-million contract extension on Eli. With his 2009 salary, it gave him a seven-year package worth $106.9 million. Thats more than his big brother is making. When he signed it, it was more than anybody was making.

In New York, eyebrows were raised higher than the Empire State Building at that contract. If he was going to get that kind of money, shouldnt he at least be the best quarterback in the league?

But thats the wrong question. Better is to ask how valuable he is to the Giants. The numbers the team threw at him show that the Giants believe hes the one player they cannot live without. They say hes the best quarterback the Giants have ever had.

With all due respect to Charlie Conerly, the Giants called it right. This kid has already won them a Super Bowl. He could yet get them into the playoffs this year.

Hell never be viewed as being as good as Peyton. But there shouldnt be any more shame to that than there is to being judged not quite as good an artist as Michelangelo or not as incisive a thinker as Stephen Hawking.

Even so, Eli won 47 of his first 80 games while Peyton won 42 of his first 80. Also, Eli is 4-3 lifetime in the playoffs while Peyton is 7-8. Each has one ring.

But all four of Elis postseason wins came in the teams 2007 Super Bowl run. Other than that, hes 0-3, which isnt anything to brag about.

That record keeps him from getting the recognition his brother gets, and nothing will change the perception. The big stats are on Peytons side of the board, and theyre going to stay there. Eli may be destined to be the best Giants quarterback ever, but Peyton will be the NFLs best ever.

Eli seems to understand that, and if theres anyone who can handle playing second fiddle, its him. There seems to be no sibling rivalry with his big brother, no neurotic compulsion to somehow outshine the sun itself. If Peyton is Mozart, Elis no Solieri, brooding about seeing his own genius eclipsed.

This is part of what makes Eli so valuable. Hes comfortable in his own skin and worries only about the things he can control. If other quarterbacks get more acclaim, let them.

Hes also incredibly even-tempered. This is a good thing to be in New York, where the gentle attentions of the media can be overwhelming. As the quarterback of the citys flagship franchise, Eli has taken his share of abuse. Even winning the Super Bowl two years ago hasnt given him the lifetime exemption from second-guessing that other quarterbacks have gotten in other towns. At times this year, its been open season on him.

Its probably not fair. For all the records Peyton Manning is likely to retire with, so far he has exactly as many rings as Eli one. Thats also the same number that Brett Favre has after 19 years in the saddle. So as great as those two have been over the years, they havent brought home any more trophies than has Eli.

And isnt that what its all about?



Talk about a classic case of the quarterback getting too much credit. Eli Manning has never thrown for more than 24 touchdowns in a season.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I don't think Troy Aikman ever had a high TD year either and he's in the Hall of Fame.... ???? what??
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I never had a chance to watch Troy Aikman play. I don't know how good he was or wasn't.

I don't judge greatness by Super Bowl rings alone. There are too many players who will never slip that circlet of gold on their fingers because they were never in the right situation. That doesn't mean their credentials are questionable.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I think Troy was a average QB who played very well with the studs around him.
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TheEngineer
15 years ago
If this article is correct then Rodgers should have been MVP last year. Let's have some fun with the article.


Rodgers for MVP in 2008? Its not as crazy as it sounds

Packers quarterback had kept his team in contention with little support from defense.

OPINION

By Eng, for PackersHome.com

updated: sometime right about.... now.

There was a shot for the Packers to make the playoffs, and if they had beaten a whole slew of teams, I would have been the first to start the campaign.

Aaron Rodgers for MVP.

Go ahead and say that suggesting the successor to Favre could be a more deserving MVP candidate than his old "mentor", grizzled old Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers or Donovan McNabb is like taking the rice cakes over the aged prime rib. Ill understand, because when the idea was first suggested to me, I thought the same thing.

But if you look at what the Packerss have to work with, you have to admit theres merit to the idea. In a year in which the Packers defense has played worse in each succeeding week, Aaron Rodgers has without any fanfare been putting together the one of the best 1st year starting seasons of ALL TIME. Despite a month-long losing streak, the 6-10 Packers still had a shot at the postseason, and its all because of Aaron Rodgers.

Im not suggesting hes the best quarterback in the league. Even Im not that foolish. But were talking most valuable here, not best. And the reality is that the only way the Packers could get into the playoffs is if Rodgers could have relied upon his defense to close out games.

Im not going to say that automatically makes him more valuable than Favre, Brees, Rivers, McNabb, Brady and Peyton have been to their teams. But it sure puts him in the discussion. The guy is that good.

Before you guffaw at that, picture him in a Vikings uniform this season. If you dont think the Vikings would have won some playoff games, youre not being honest.

Rodgers didnt lead the league in anything, but hes among the leaders in most categories. With 28 touchdown passes, he has thrown just 13 interceptions. His yards per attempt are at 7.5, impressive for a 1st year QB. His 63.6 completion percentage was also excellent, as was his 93.8 quarterback rating.

Quarterback ratings are probably the most abused and least telling stat ever concocted by the numbers wonks. If you go strictly by ratings, Aaron Rodgers was the sixth-best quarterback in the league and Matt Schaub is the seventh-best, ahead of Tony Romo, Favre, McNabb and Eli Manning.

In Rodgers case, the rating is only an indication of the improvement hes shown. It reflects his improved completion percentage and his higher yardage per attempt since taking over as a starter.

Midway through the season, the Packers laid a $65-million contract extension on Aaron. With his 2008 salary, it gave him a six-year package worth $65 million.

In Green Bay, eyebrows were raised higher than the Lombardi Statue at that contract. If he was going to get that kind of money, shouldnt he at least be the best quarterback in the league? Or played a whole damn season?

But thats the wrong question. Better is to ask how valuable he is to the Packers. The numbers the team threw at him show that the Packers believe hes the one player they cannot live without. They say he could be the best quarterback the Packers will ever have.

With all due respect to DD80forever, the Packers called it right. He could have gotten them into the playoffs last year if his defense held, and probably will get in this year.

Hell never be viewed as being as good as Favre. But there shouldnt be any more shame to that than there is to being judged not quite as good an artist as Michelangelo or not as incisive a thinker as Stephen Hawking.

Even so, Aaron won 6 of his first 16 games while Brett won 9 of his first 13 for the Packers. Also, Aaron is yet to get into the playoffs while Brett is 12-10 in the postseason. Favre has one ring.

That record keeps Aaron from getting the recognition the former GB QB gets, and nothing will change the perception. The big stats are on Favres side of the board, and theyre going to stay there. Rodgers may be destined to be the best QB for the Packers now, but Brett will be the NFLs best ever.

Rodgers seems to understand that, and if theres anyone who can handle playing second fiddle, its him. There seems to be no rivalry with the Green Bay legend, no neurotic compulsion to somehow outshine the sun itself. If Favre is Mozart, Aarons no Solieri, brooding about seeing his own genius eclipsed.

This is part of what makes Rodgers so valuable. Hes comfortable in his own skin and worries only about the things he can control. If other quarterbacks get more acclaim, let them.

Hes also incredibly even-tempered. This is a good thing to be in Green Bay, where the fanatical attentions of the media can be overwhelming. As the quarterback of the citys only franchise, Aaron has taken his share of abuse. Even having a near record season hasnt given him the lifetime exemption from being abused by children. At times last year, its been open season on him.

Its definitely not fair. For all the records Brett Favre is likely to retire with, he only has 1 more ring than Rodgers. Thats also the same number that Peyton Manning has after 12 years in the saddle. So as great as those two have been over the years, Rodgers has plenty of time to match or surpass them.

And isnt that what its all about? Er, sorta.


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zombieslayer
15 years ago

I think Troy was a average QB who played very well with the studs around him.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



No. He was above average. Threw some really good passes.

Hall of Fame? No.

With that OL (which was arguably the best OL ever), an elite RB for his entire career, and an elite WR, it kind of makes your job easy. I think in his time, there could have been 10-15 QBs who would have put up exactly the same stats.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I think Troy was a average QB who played very well with the studs around him.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



No. He was above average. Threw some really good passes.

Hall of Fame? No.

With that OL (which was arguably the best OL ever), an elite RB for his entire career, and an elite WR, it kind of makes your job easy. I think in his time, there could have been 10-15 QBs who would have put up exactly the same stats.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



What average QB doesn't make some really good passes with a solid running game and lots of time in the pocket? I'm not trying to knock Troy, I really liked him as a QB. I just never seen anything 'special' about him. Maybe 'average' is not giving enough credit, I'd go with 7 out of 10, just a smidgen above average.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
Zero - OK, then we agree.

A 7 was enough to win 3 SBs with that team. Let's take 1993. This is going to piss off a lot of Cow fans but I'll say it anyways.

Take the following QBs in 1993. Any of them would have won 3 SBs with that team:
John Elway
Brett Favre
Steve Young
Warren Moon
Jim Kelly
Phil Simms
Joe Montana
Randall Cunningham

The following QBs might win 3 SBs with that team:
Vinny Testaverde
Rodney Peete (hell, perfect example. Look how good he was when he was backing up Aikman for the one year he backed him up)
Boomer Esiason
Scott Mitchell (had talent but was injury prone. That's why I put him in the "might" category)
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Greg C.
15 years ago
I don't like the article. The writer builds his case, for the most part, by comparing Eli's stats with his own stats from previous years. If every QB who has a career year is deserving of the MVP award, there would not be enough trophies to go around.

I think Eli is simultaneously the most overrated and most underrated QB in the league. Nobody seems to have a middle-of-the-road opinion on him. I rate him pretty high, myself. Maybe top ten.

As for Aikman, he was right up there with all of those great contemporaries mentioned by zombie. He was an integral part of those Cowboys teams of the 90s. What I liked best about him was that he was always calm under pressure. Nothing fazed him. Packer fans tend to hate Aikman because he played for the Cowboys and he killed us almost every time. It's the same reason why many Packer fans hate Brian Urlacher and think he's overrated.

Aikman's stats were not huge because he played for a run-oriented team. But when he needed to throw, he could throw with the best of them.
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PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

I think Troy was a average QB who played very well with the studs around him.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



No. He was above average. Threw some really good passes.

Hall of Fame? No.

With that OL (which was arguably the best OL ever), an elite RB for his entire career, and an elite WR, it kind of makes your job easy. I think in his time, there could have been 10-15 QBs who would have put up exactly the same stats.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



What average QB doesn't make some really good passes with a solid running game and lots of time in the pocket? I'm not trying to knock Troy, I really liked him as a QB. I just never seen anything 'special' about him. Maybe 'average' is not giving enough credit, I'd go with 7 out of 10, just a smidgen above average.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



7 is to high. 165 TDs 141 Ints. I always hear how accurate Troy was, well apparently he is just about as accutate to the other team as he was his own. With that ratio, if he played long enough to have as many TDs as another QB we know, he would have somewhere over 400 INTs also.
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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