Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

Eli for MVP? Its not as crazy as it sounds 

Giants quarterback has kept his team in contention with little support


OPINION

By Mike Celizic | NBCSports.com contributor

updated 1:16 a.m. CT, Mon., Dec . 21, 2009

Theres still a shot for the Giants to make the playoffs, and if they beat Washington, Carolina and Minnesota to do it, let me be the first to start the campaign.

Eli Manning for MVP.

Go ahead and say that suggesting Manning the Younger could be a more deserving MVP candidate than his big brother, grizzled old Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers or Donovan McNabb is like taking the rice cakes over the aged prime rib. Ill understand, because when the idea was first suggested to me, I thought the same thing.

But if you look at what the Giants have to work with, you have to admit theres merit to the idea. In a year in which the Giants defense has played worse in each succeeding week, Eli Manning has without any fanfare been putting together the best season of his six-year career. Despite a month-long losing streak, the 7-6 Giants still have a shot at the postseason, and its all because of Eli Manning.

Im not suggesting hes the best quarterback in the league. Even Im not that foolish. But were talking most valuable here, not best. And the reality is that the only way the Giants are getting into the playoffs is if Eli puts them on his shoulders and drags them there.

Im not going to say that automatically makes him more valuable than Favre, Brees, Rivers, McNabb, Brady and Peyton have been to their teams. But it sure puts him in the discussion. The guy is that good.

Before you guffaw at that, picture him in a Dallas uniform for the past six years. If you dont think the Cowboys would have won some playoff games, youre not being honest.

Eli isnt leading the league in anything, but hes among the leaders in most categories. With 23 touchdown passes, hes one behind his career high, and he has thrown just 11 interceptions. His yards per attempt are at a career high of 8, 1.2 yards better than hes ever done before. His 60.4 completion percentage is also a career high, as is his 93.0 quarterback rating.

Quarterback ratings are probably the most abused and least telling stat ever concocted by the numbers wonks. If you go strictly by ratings, Aaron Rodgers is the fourth-best quarterback in the league and Matt Schaub is the seventh-best, ahead of Tony Romo, Brady, McNabb, Eli and Kurt Warner.

In Elis case, the rating is only an indication of the improvement hes shown. His previous best number was last years 86.4, and to jump to 93.0 is a considerable increase. It reflects his improved completion percentage and his higher yardage per attempt.

Before the season started, the Giants laid a $97.5-million contract extension on Eli. With his 2009 salary, it gave him a seven-year package worth $106.9 million. Thats more than his big brother is making. When he signed it, it was more than anybody was making.

In New York, eyebrows were raised higher than the Empire State Building at that contract. If he was going to get that kind of money, shouldnt he at least be the best quarterback in the league?

But thats the wrong question. Better is to ask how valuable he is to the Giants. The numbers the team threw at him show that the Giants believe hes the one player they cannot live without. They say hes the best quarterback the Giants have ever had.

With all due respect to Charlie Conerly, the Giants called it right. This kid has already won them a Super Bowl. He could yet get them into the playoffs this year.

Hell never be viewed as being as good as Peyton. But there shouldnt be any more shame to that than there is to being judged not quite as good an artist as Michelangelo or not as incisive a thinker as Stephen Hawking.

Even so, Eli won 47 of his first 80 games while Peyton won 42 of his first 80. Also, Eli is 4-3 lifetime in the playoffs while Peyton is 7-8. Each has one ring.

But all four of Elis postseason wins came in the teams 2007 Super Bowl run. Other than that, hes 0-3, which isnt anything to brag about.

That record keeps him from getting the recognition his brother gets, and nothing will change the perception. The big stats are on Peytons side of the board, and theyre going to stay there. Eli may be destined to be the best Giants quarterback ever, but Peyton will be the NFLs best ever.

Eli seems to understand that, and if theres anyone who can handle playing second fiddle, its him. There seems to be no sibling rivalry with his big brother, no neurotic compulsion to somehow outshine the sun itself. If Peyton is Mozart, Elis no Solieri, brooding about seeing his own genius eclipsed.

This is part of what makes Eli so valuable. Hes comfortable in his own skin and worries only about the things he can control. If other quarterbacks get more acclaim, let them.

Hes also incredibly even-tempered. This is a good thing to be in New York, where the gentle attentions of the media can be overwhelming. As the quarterback of the citys flagship franchise, Eli has taken his share of abuse. Even winning the Super Bowl two years ago hasnt given him the lifetime exemption from second-guessing that other quarterbacks have gotten in other towns. At times this year, its been open season on him.

Its probably not fair. For all the records Peyton Manning is likely to retire with, so far he has exactly as many rings as Eli one. Thats also the same number that Brett Favre has after 19 years in the saddle. So as great as those two have been over the years, they havent brought home any more trophies than has Eli.

And isnt that what its all about?



Talk about a classic case of the quarterback getting too much credit. Eli Manning has never thrown for more than 24 touchdowns in a season.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I don't think Troy Aikman ever had a high TD year either and he's in the Hall of Fame.... ???? what??
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I never had a chance to watch Troy Aikman play. I don't know how good he was or wasn't.

I don't judge greatness by Super Bowl rings alone. There are too many players who will never slip that circlet of gold on their fingers because they were never in the right situation. That doesn't mean their credentials are questionable.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
I think Troy was a average QB who played very well with the studs around him.
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TheEngineer
15 years ago
If this article is correct then Rodgers should have been MVP last year. Let's have some fun with the article.


Rodgers for MVP in 2008? Its not as crazy as it sounds

Packers quarterback had kept his team in contention with little support from defense.

OPINION

By Eng, for PackersHome.com

updated: sometime right about.... now.

There was a shot for the Packers to make the playoffs, and if they had beaten a whole slew of teams, I would have been the first to start the campaign.

Aaron Rodgers for MVP.

Go ahead and say that suggesting the successor to Favre could be a more deserving MVP candidate than his old "mentor", grizzled old Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers or Donovan McNabb is like taking the rice cakes over the aged prime rib. Ill understand, because when the idea was first suggested to me, I thought the same thing.

But if you look at what the Packerss have to work with, you have to admit theres merit to the idea. In a year in which the Packers defense has played worse in each succeeding week, Aaron Rodgers has without any fanfare been putting together the one of the best 1st year starting seasons of ALL TIME. Despite a month-long losing streak, the 6-10 Packers still had a shot at the postseason, and its all because of Aaron Rodgers.

Im not suggesting hes the best quarterback in the league. Even Im not that foolish. But were talking most valuable here, not best. And the reality is that the only way the Packers could get into the playoffs is if Rodgers could have relied upon his defense to close out games.

Im not going to say that automatically makes him more valuable than Favre, Brees, Rivers, McNabb, Brady and Peyton have been to their teams. But it sure puts him in the discussion. The guy is that good.

Before you guffaw at that, picture him in a Vikings uniform this season. If you dont think the Vikings would have won some playoff games, youre not being honest.

Rodgers didnt lead the league in anything, but hes among the leaders in most categories. With 28 touchdown passes, he has thrown just 13 interceptions. His yards per attempt are at 7.5, impressive for a 1st year QB. His 63.6 completion percentage was also excellent, as was his 93.8 quarterback rating.

Quarterback ratings are probably the most abused and least telling stat ever concocted by the numbers wonks. If you go strictly by ratings, Aaron Rodgers was the sixth-best quarterback in the league and Matt Schaub is the seventh-best, ahead of Tony Romo, Favre, McNabb and Eli Manning.

In Rodgers case, the rating is only an indication of the improvement hes shown. It reflects his improved completion percentage and his higher yardage per attempt since taking over as a starter.

Midway through the season, the Packers laid a $65-million contract extension on Aaron. With his 2008 salary, it gave him a six-year package worth $65 million.

In Green Bay, eyebrows were raised higher than the Lombardi Statue at that contract. If he was going to get that kind of money, shouldnt he at least be the best quarterback in the league? Or played a whole damn season?

But thats the wrong question. Better is to ask how valuable he is to the Packers. The numbers the team threw at him show that the Packers believe hes the one player they cannot live without. They say he could be the best quarterback the Packers will ever have.

With all due respect to DD80forever, the Packers called it right. He could have gotten them into the playoffs last year if his defense held, and probably will get in this year.

Hell never be viewed as being as good as Favre. But there shouldnt be any more shame to that than there is to being judged not quite as good an artist as Michelangelo or not as incisive a thinker as Stephen Hawking.

Even so, Aaron won 6 of his first 16 games while Brett won 9 of his first 13 for the Packers. Also, Aaron is yet to get into the playoffs while Brett is 12-10 in the postseason. Favre has one ring.

That record keeps Aaron from getting the recognition the former GB QB gets, and nothing will change the perception. The big stats are on Favres side of the board, and theyre going to stay there. Rodgers may be destined to be the best QB for the Packers now, but Brett will be the NFLs best ever.

Rodgers seems to understand that, and if theres anyone who can handle playing second fiddle, its him. There seems to be no rivalry with the Green Bay legend, no neurotic compulsion to somehow outshine the sun itself. If Favre is Mozart, Aarons no Solieri, brooding about seeing his own genius eclipsed.

This is part of what makes Rodgers so valuable. Hes comfortable in his own skin and worries only about the things he can control. If other quarterbacks get more acclaim, let them.

Hes also incredibly even-tempered. This is a good thing to be in Green Bay, where the fanatical attentions of the media can be overwhelming. As the quarterback of the citys only franchise, Aaron has taken his share of abuse. Even having a near record season hasnt given him the lifetime exemption from being abused by children. At times last year, its been open season on him.

Its definitely not fair. For all the records Brett Favre is likely to retire with, he only has 1 more ring than Rodgers. Thats also the same number that Peyton Manning has after 12 years in the saddle. So as great as those two have been over the years, Rodgers has plenty of time to match or surpass them.

And isnt that what its all about? Er, sorta.


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zombieslayer
15 years ago

I think Troy was a average QB who played very well with the studs around him.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



No. He was above average. Threw some really good passes.

Hall of Fame? No.

With that OL (which was arguably the best OL ever), an elite RB for his entire career, and an elite WR, it kind of makes your job easy. I think in his time, there could have been 10-15 QBs who would have put up exactly the same stats.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I think Troy was a average QB who played very well with the studs around him.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



No. He was above average. Threw some really good passes.

Hall of Fame? No.

With that OL (which was arguably the best OL ever), an elite RB for his entire career, and an elite WR, it kind of makes your job easy. I think in his time, there could have been 10-15 QBs who would have put up exactly the same stats.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



What average QB doesn't make some really good passes with a solid running game and lots of time in the pocket? I'm not trying to knock Troy, I really liked him as a QB. I just never seen anything 'special' about him. Maybe 'average' is not giving enough credit, I'd go with 7 out of 10, just a smidgen above average.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
Zero - OK, then we agree.

A 7 was enough to win 3 SBs with that team. Let's take 1993. This is going to piss off a lot of Cow fans but I'll say it anyways.

Take the following QBs in 1993. Any of them would have won 3 SBs with that team:
John Elway
Brett Favre
Steve Young
Warren Moon
Jim Kelly
Phil Simms
Joe Montana
Randall Cunningham

The following QBs might win 3 SBs with that team:
Vinny Testaverde
Rodney Peete (hell, perfect example. Look how good he was when he was backing up Aikman for the one year he backed him up)
Boomer Esiason
Scott Mitchell (had talent but was injury prone. That's why I put him in the "might" category)
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Greg C.
15 years ago
I don't like the article. The writer builds his case, for the most part, by comparing Eli's stats with his own stats from previous years. If every QB who has a career year is deserving of the MVP award, there would not be enough trophies to go around.

I think Eli is simultaneously the most overrated and most underrated QB in the league. Nobody seems to have a middle-of-the-road opinion on him. I rate him pretty high, myself. Maybe top ten.

As for Aikman, he was right up there with all of those great contemporaries mentioned by zombie. He was an integral part of those Cowboys teams of the 90s. What I liked best about him was that he was always calm under pressure. Nothing fazed him. Packer fans tend to hate Aikman because he played for the Cowboys and he killed us almost every time. It's the same reason why many Packer fans hate Brian Urlacher and think he's overrated.

Aikman's stats were not huge because he played for a run-oriented team. But when he needed to throw, he could throw with the best of them.
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PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

I think Troy was a average QB who played very well with the studs around him.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



No. He was above average. Threw some really good passes.

Hall of Fame? No.

With that OL (which was arguably the best OL ever), an elite RB for his entire career, and an elite WR, it kind of makes your job easy. I think in his time, there could have been 10-15 QBs who would have put up exactly the same stats.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



What average QB doesn't make some really good passes with a solid running game and lots of time in the pocket? I'm not trying to knock Troy, I really liked him as a QB. I just never seen anything 'special' about him. Maybe 'average' is not giving enough credit, I'd go with 7 out of 10, just a smidgen above average.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



7 is to high. 165 TDs 141 Ints. I always hear how accurate Troy was, well apparently he is just about as accutate to the other team as he was his own. With that ratio, if he played long enough to have as many TDs as another QB we know, he would have somewhere over 400 INTs also.
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Zero2Cool (2h) : Could ban beast and I still don't think anyone catches him.
Mucky Tundra (16h) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore
packerfanoutwest (22h) : Feliz Navidad!
Zero2Cool (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas!
beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
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