Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
There's a scene in The Matrix. Smith is interrogating Morpheus. And he makes the claim that man is a virus.

As with many things in that movie (for me, anyway), it's a thought-provoking statement. We (men) like to think of ourselves as eradicators of viruses. (Or, if you will, overcomers of viruses via human ingenuity.) Yet what if we're the virus?

I sometimes think Smith is right.

On the other hand, I sometimes think Al Gore is a Smith wannabe. Because if Smith is right, man, being the virus, can't deal with the virus' problem. Can a virus eradicate itself?

Seems like a sort of Heisenberg conundrum.

Sorry, I've gone and gotten philosophical again. My bad.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Trippster
15 years ago

David....the reason i get so upset at this kind of garbage is that millions upon millions of dollars are being spent to "combat" this non existant thing. They use it to get people to donate their hard earned money, they use it as an excuse to raise your taxes. And in fact there is nothing that mankind can do to regulate the temperature of the earth.
So the current trend is that the temperature is going up a little. The earth has ALWAYS gone through temperature phases. Sometimes a little warmer, sometimes a little colder.
But the normal temp swing is being used to control and scare people. Is that the right thing to do?
I used AL Gore because he has been one of the main caractures running around with "The sky is falling!" attitude. Making films, "preaching" about it. It has nothing to do with his political standing.
I respected president Kennedy. He was a Democrat. I choose who i vote for based on what they stand for, not DEm or Rep. If Joe Liebermann would have run, i would have voted for him.
Yes, it's true the "liberal" side is the one spreading this whole global warming scare, and so far i have'nt seen any conservatives saying it's true.

I'm against the money making scheme and the brain washing of our children.
Does that make me a bad guy?

"Cheesey" wrote:




Al, have you seen Gore's "inconvenient truth"? He has been of this thought since he was in college. and the science behind what he is saying is pretty factual. Also, what is you opinion about the iceberg that is floating toward new zealand? It is bigger than the size of Manahtten. I wouldn't just poo poo the whole thing. If Gore is even half right, our children and grandkids are in for some serious issues. You comments are similar to saying that our deficit is no big deal. We have had them before and will have them again.

"Trippster" wrote:


Again, "cherry picking" stuff that agrees with what he wants it to agree with, ignoring all else.
And, so what if the temp IS going up? Do you REALLY believe that man has ANY control over it? Thats like an ant thinking it has control over the Empire State Building.
And again, i ask you, WHAT does man think his little "green" living will do? Turn the temp DOWN on the planet and stop the iceburg?
And AGAIN i ask, what is an "ideal" temp for the planet, anyway? And how do we stop it from going TOO low? If these man made ideas supposedly work, won't it lower the planet temp and just keep going? How will they then stop that??? Oh....i know...."GLOBAL FREEZING! WE ALL ARE GONNA FREEZE!!!"
That will be next generation's scare. And "reason" to raise taxes on the citizens.
As far as comparing that to the nation's deficit, thats not a fair comparison. The debt we DO have control over, the planet's temperature, no control.
I can see it now...."Cheesey doesn't care about the planet!"
Not true. But there are things we can control, and there are things we can't control. God has kept the earth spinning this long, i think He will keep it spinning as long as HE wants. Reguardless of how many SUV's we have.
It's money Tripp, and I'm surprised you don't see that.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Cheesey, you didn't answer my question. Have you seen Inconvenient Truth?

It is called global warming but that doesnt realyl expalin what is happening. The emissions from the industrail age have damaged the ozonwe layer. But not in the way many think. It is not allowing the solar rays of the sun, once bounced off the water and ice, to escape the atmoshpere. instead, the reflect down again. This is what is melting the polar caps, the glaciers, and even the snow on Mt. Fuji.

There is a DIRECT correlation of the emissions to what is happening. Just because the spokesman USED to be a politician (of whom it should be noted, was never ever been called to question his honesty or purpose) doesn't mean the scientific facts aren't accurate. He is simply speaking for the scientist community that fully believes this is happening.

Why does it have to always be about money Cheesey? Is that the case about everything? Is that why the Mrs. is with you? No, she is with you because she believes in who you are and she has a good heart.

Give SOME ex-politicians the same type of possibilty.

Don't jump on Gore until you have at least seen the movie. And if you haven't seen the movie, and you haven't spoken with many scientists, how are you forming your opinion?

Give me proof it is all about the money.
"Let Your Light Shine!"
15 years ago

There's a scene in The Matrix. Smith is interrogating Morpheus. And he makes the claim that man is a virus.

As with many things in that movie (for me, anyway), it's a thought-provoking statement. We (men) like to think of ourselves as eradicators of viruses. (Or, if you will, overcomers of viruses via human ingenuity.) Yet what if we're the virus?

I sometimes think Smith is right.

On the other hand, I sometimes think Al Gore is a Smith wannabe. Because if Smith is right, man, being the virus, can't deal with the virus' problem. Can a virus eradicate itself?

Seems like a sort of Heisenberg conundrum.

Sorry, I've gone and gotten philosophical again. My bad.

"Wade" wrote:



Yeah, it was an interesting thought. He talks about every other creature finding an equilibrium with its environment, which mankind does not do. Another similar concept is from Daniel Quinn who wrote that mankind is the only species to control and/or declare war on the rest of the community of life. We are seemingly too smart for our own good, or not humble and respectful enough of the world around us. How many species are we keeping alive in zoos after we hunted them to near extinction? How many did we fail to save? How much are we affecting the decrease in bee populations worldwide? How long does the Great Barrier Reef have left before it is completely desolate? What kind of effect are we having on phytoplankton populations? We may not be the only culprit, but it would be an incredible coincidence if all of these things just happened to occur around the time of the industrialization of the world.
UserPostedImage
digsthepack
15 years ago
Trippster...please tell me that you are not relying on Al Gore's movie as a basis for your opinions. That man is the prince of darkness who is only in this for the BILLIONS he will make as the leader of this world-wide cult that is called "environmentalism".

Surely, you must question the motives of a man and movement who proclaim that, "the debate is over" where MMGW is concerned? Especially in the face of many highly regarded scientists who believe otherwise, and the fact that the basis for much of this arguement is the doctored data coming out of the University of East Anglia...which has been used by the UN for its IPCC papers...which drives the international movement.

Go figure...the U. fuckin' N. once again.

And please, let's revisit history a bit. The Fascist movements of the 20th century had historically used a complicit media (state owned in their case, boot-licking in ours) to demagogue its opposition into silence and irrevelence. Hmmmm..so anyone who disagrees is called a "flat earther", "ignorant", "guided by their own selfish motives".

Now, look within the Obama administration....GE president is close counsel to Obama..on his senior staff; GE owns NBC; NBC is the most shrill in dismissing opposition to MMGW while also providing cover for the waek/questionable arguements being made by the MMGW movement; GE stands to make BILLIONS producing wind turbine generators..which by the way are one of the least cost effective sources of energy, and simply cannot provide the power to sustain our population and economy.

Yep...follow the money!
State Motto: "Wisconsin, our serial murderers eat their kill!"
digsthepack
15 years ago
Hey Porky.....once again..follow the money. Scientists and universities are making a fortune of this ruse in the form of national and international grants. Science has been corrupted by politics and money.

One question...were you actually serious when you asked if we had looked at the sun lately, and if it has gotten any bigger? Are you kidding me? It is not the size of the ball in the sky, but the extent of increase/decrease of the solar energy it produces..which is also known to be cyclic..

Is this really how far the debate has sunk...the physical size of the sun in the sky? We are fucking doomed.....

And furthermore, don't you find it questionable that the left views companies who provide products and goods used by all, and who make profits (for shame!) in doing so are labeled as "greedy", when trial lawyers and the environmental movement, who produce nothing and only take from us, are considered saviors?

For the record, I despise both parties and have strong libertarian leanings...so please do not hit me up with the "right wing whacko" label..I am merely responding th an American/world left whose motives have been clear for decades to anyone paying the fuck attention.
State Motto: "Wisconsin, our serial murderers eat their kill!"
15 years ago

Trippster...please tell me that you are not relying on Al Gore's movie as a basis for your opinions. That man is the prince of darkness who is only in this for the BILLIONS he will make as the leader of this world-wide cult that is called "environmentalism".

Surely, you must question the motives of a man and movement who proclaim that, "the debate is over" where MMGW is concerned? Especially in the face of many highly regarded scientists who believe otherwise, and the fact that the basis for much of this arguement is the doctored data coming out of the University of East Anglia...which has been used by the UN for its IPCC papers...which drives the international movement.

Go figure...the U. fuckin' N. once again.

And please, let's revisit history a bit. The Fascist movements of the 20th century had historically used a complicit media (state owned in their case, boot-licking in ours) to demagogue its opposition into silence and irrevelence. Hmmmm..so anyone who disagrees is called a "flat earther", "ignorant", "guided by their own selfish motives".

Now, look within the Obama administration....GE president is close counsel to Obama..on his senior staff; GE owns NBC; NBC is the most shrill in dismissing opposition to MMGW while also providing cover for the waek/questionable arguements being made by the MMGW movement; GE stands to make BILLIONS producing wind turbine generators..which by the way are one of the least cost effective sources of energy, and simply cannot provide the power to sustain our population and economy.

Yep...follow the money!

"digsthepack" wrote:



The entire argument has been politicized on BOTH sides. To suggest it is one sided is just flat out wrong.

If you want to keep harping on money... According to this post, the University of East Anglia is the leading source of anthropocentric global warming trend data in the world. Ok then, let's compare the researchers' income (all what, 15 of them? 25?) to say, the income of the people responsible for disputing this data on behalf of the businesses that would be affected by the changes.

I'm trying to imagine a world where there is more profit for scientific researchers than industry representatives, and all I can do is :lol: . This "follow the money" argument is a house of cards. Really.
UserPostedImage
Trippster
15 years ago
Following the money is simply a skeptical opt out of looking at the data.

And why is Gore "the prince of Darkness"?


Do you really think he is so evil that he would perpetrate such a lie to the entire world for a few bucks? Has he done any such acts in the past to lead one to believe he would do this?

I believe he is an honorable man. Mistakes? of course, but I have never seen any malicious intent as he is being accused of in this forum.

If he shouldn't be the one to spread the message then who should? Some unknown scientist? An actor, perhaps Angela Jolie? How about Mel Gibson? Or maybe Mini-me?

Once again, show where the Inconvenient Truth is not accurate or false in its conversation.
"Let Your Light Shine!"
digsthepack
15 years ago
Mass......money and power corrupt, period. How much money is being dispensed by national/world organzations to entities that disagree with MMGW? Very little to none, that is how much..a complete imbalance in the investments for this debate...a debate that will decide the fates of hundreds of millions of the producing class.

Are you saying that jobs and paychecks are not sufficient motivation? It does not have to be millions to corrupt, you know? But that said, there are plenty who will make millions/billions off of this...and all the science, bought and paid for, supports them. And who is to say what resides in Swiss bank accounts for these men of science? Kinda naive to believe that payola does not occur in this.

You are right, buth sides are playing games, but one side hads a serius interest in my wallet and lifestyle that the other does not.
State Motto: "Wisconsin, our serial murderers eat their kill!"
15 years ago

Mass......money and power corrupt, period. How much money is being dispensed by national/world organzations to entities that disagree with MMGW? Very little to none, that is how much..a complete imbalance in the investments for this debate...a debate that will decide the fates of hundreds of millions of the producing class.

Are you saying that jobs and paychecks are not sufficient motivation? It does not have to be millions to corrupt, you know? But that said, there are plenty who will make millions/billions off of this...and all the science, bought and paid for, supports them. And who is to say what resides in Swiss bank accounts for these men of science? Kinda naive to believe that payola does not occur in this.

You are right, buth sides are playing games, but one side hads a serius interest in my wallet and lifestyle that the other does not.

"digsthepack" wrote:



Where are you getting this information? Who are the "plenty" who will make millions/billions? Off of grants? Do you understand how grant budgets work?

Swiss bank accounts? Your wallet? Your lifestyle? This has turned into a Fox News debate program... Peace.
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago


The entire argument has been politicized on BOTH sides. To suggest it is one sided is just flat out wrong.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



Absolutely. On this, I agree with MassPackersFan completely.

What passes for most debate on "global warming" is part of the reason I am so anti-politics. I'm among those who doesn't think Gore is worth listening to (sorry, Trippster), but that doesn't mean I think warming/climate change/man's role therein is an unimportant question. In fact, the reason I don't think Gore is worth listening to is that it is too important a question, both in terms of science and in terms of faith, to let the politically-inclined frame the debate. Any more than I am going to let the marketers do so.

Political framing does nothing but increase the ratio of noise to signal. Getting the bottom on important issues requires trust in those discussing, but political framing is built on fear and mistrust: don't trust liberals; don't trust conservatives; don't trust talk radio; don't trust proponents; don't trust opponents. Just don't trust. And in that world, you just get a bunch of people shouting across each other, and contesting for power to impose their will on the "other" side.

There are times when such contesting is necessary. See, e.g., American Revolution, WWII, etc. But the ecology and its future is NOT one of them IMO.

[An aside to Nonstop, if he's reading this thread: the essence of anarchism is epistemological rather than ideological. Its more a rejection of politics than it is a rejection of government. Most anarchists are anti-government, to be sure, but its because government is the result of political action; and anarchists, at least those of my *ilk*, are extraordinarily skeptical of political action as a mode of coordinating individual freedoms.]
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    Mucky Tundra (10m) : the Synder years or do they take care of one of their own?
    Mucky Tundra (10m) : Do the Commanders risk losing a top WR with an emerging QB just because he's turning 30 and potentially risk damaging the rebuild from
    Mucky Tundra (17m) : Turns 30 this September, plays at a high level and Washington has some cap space I believe
    Mucky Tundra (18m) : More interesting is Washington with Terry McLaurin
    Mucky Tundra (18m) : I would imagine Dallas will resolve this issue with a truckload of money
    Zero2Cool (2h) : Micah pulling a Myles with trade request
    beast (8h) : Packers should make some cheese forks
    Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : GRAB THE PITCHFORKS~
    Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : CUT HIM
    Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : Socieltal collapse imminent
    Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : The West has fallen
    Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : After starting off camp with 25 straight made field goals, Brandon McManus has missed one
    Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : But it should be stable
    Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : It's probably gonna be slower.
    Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : We're gonna just full go on to the new host.
    Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : What crap. Site issues galore
    Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : if PH dies, there is packerpeople com available
    Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : database is on new host, eventually website will follow
    Mucky Tundra (30-Jul) : Zero, regarding Ewers, you are correct.
    Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : Sadly, this might be our life for awhile. I could put it on another host, but seems it was slower, although more stable
    beast (30-Jul) : How long will it be down?
    beast (30-Jul) : RIP site 😭
    Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : Site will die, I have to restart it.
    Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : Quinn stinks. Lot of underthrows. (my guess)
    beast (30-Jul) : How did Quinn Ewers effect where Golden was drafted?
    dfosterf (30-Jul) : All I've experienced was late at night or early morning. I just figured you were doing something in the background
    Zero2Cool (30-Jul) : Site sure seems to be down more than up
    dfosterf (29-Jul) : 50 cent hookers? I'm moving to Green Bay. I thought it was just real estate that was more affordable there. 😂
    Zero2Cool (29-Jul) : Sure seems site going down more than 50¢ hooker
    Mucky Tundra (27-Jul) : Golden with two TDs in red zone drills today
    Mucky Tundra (27-Jul) : @JacobMorley Shoutout to Quinn Ewers for allowing Matthew Golden to be available when Green Bay picked.
    Zero2Cool (27-Jul) : The menu you expanded to log in, it's the first icon under "PackersHome" .. maybe i should add text to it
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : Feelin' pfowish can't find the sun. No big deal, will drag a laptop out when the time comes
    Zero2Cool (27-Jul) : if you're on mobile, open the menu and its the "sun" icon
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : Can't find the toggle, lol
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : I can find that the Microsoft lady rep for Titletown Tech is the philanthropy boss for the entire Microsoft corporation, but. .
    Zero2Cool (27-Jul) : There's a toggle for light/dark theme. Super easy.
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : The white background beta was hard to read, especially the quotes
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : Hopefully the color scheme remains the same
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : *Friday*
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : 100 million would be 539 million as of Fridsy
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : Heck, they could have taken a hundred milliion and invested in DAVE inc. last year (semi random, humor, but real)
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : Beer brat and ticket is where the money comes from
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : The 40th is Titletown Tech itself. This is a pet project of both Ed Policy and Mark Murphy
    Zero2Cool (27-Jul) : New site coming along nicely. The editor is better than what we have here. Oh yeah!
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : No profit that I know of. 0 for 40
    dfosterf (27-Jul) : The woke reference has to do with the makeup and oftentimes objectives of the companies they invested in
    packerfanoutwest (27-Jul) : beer and brats woke? say whom?
    beast (27-Jul) : I don't want to get into politics, but how is, beers and brats considered to be "woke"? Food is food...
    beast (27-Jul) : That being said, I'm not saying all 100% should be that way, but not surprised if majority are Wisconsin based
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2025 Packers Schedule
    Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
    COMMANDERS
    Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
    Browns
    Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
    Cowboys
    Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
    BENGALS
    Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
    Cardinals
    Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
    Steelers
    Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
    PANTHERS
    Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
    EAGLES
    Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
    Giants
    Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
    BEARS
    Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
    Broncos
    Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
    Bears
    Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
    RAVENS
    Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
    Vikings
    Recent Topics
    4h / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

    6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    23h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    31-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

    31-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    28-Jul / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

    28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    28-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    27-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    27-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    25-Jul / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

    25-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    25-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / TheKanataThrilla

    25-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    25-Jul / Around The NFL / beast

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.