PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

What this tells me is the WR are not getting separation fast enough. If they are open, Rodgers will throw the ball. As for the holding on to long argument again, I don't want to see Rodgers looking at 1st option then throw the ball away. When you have to check 2nd 3rd options, it takes more time. We need to give him the time to make it through the progressions.

"gbguy20" wrote:



Quarterbacks are supposed to get the ball out within 3 seconds, 4 seconds tops. 1st 2nd 3rd progression then back to 1st if nothing dump it off

As much as i hate to bring up Favre's name, living in MN im forced to watch him every week, he has got this down perfectly and gets the ball out just fine.

If Rodgers was doing that all year we'd probably have ~14 sacks instead of 20

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:



yet Rodgers is getting Pressured in 2 seconds, and people expect him to just throw it away. If he was back there taking sacks after 4-5 seconds, sure I would be all over him, but he is getting criticized for not throwing the ball away in <3.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
15 years ago
If Rodgers could always play like like he did on third downs against the vikings, the offense would be impossible to stop. He was something like 8/9 with well over a 100 yards and a td. I watched most of the vikings game over again and focused on 3rd down. Here is some stuff i noticed.

- There were at least 3+ receivers going out on most of the 3rd down completions.

-A few of the completions Rodgers had to scramble to makes plays. One was for the td to finley.

-He saw pressure and no pressure from the defense.

The conclusion I came too is maybe Rodgers holds onto the ball too long because he loves to scramble and use his legs. Maybe he has the mentality that once he sees no one open his second option is to scramble or run with it, instead of throwing it away.
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gbguy20
15 years ago
Great breakdown of Rodger's drop backs. I recommend clicking the link to read the article rather than in the quote below because the graphs don't show up here, which means you miss a ton of the article.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html 


More on Rodgers and ball release
By Greg A. Bedard of the Journal Sentinel
Oct. 15, 2009 3:03 p.m.

Green Bay - For my story in today's paper, I took a closer look at the issue of Aaron Rodgers' ball release.

Did he holding the ball too long against the Minnesota Vikings, which coach Mike McCarthy more than strongly hinted about on Monday? (And for the record, we are only taking issue with the Vikings game because it was clear McCarthy wanted to get rid of the ball quicker against their defense and in the dome, a point which I made in the story)

If you read the story in the print editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, please read the online version. For space reasons, the second half of the story is vastly different.

There was also a chart that did not run. Here it is:

Keep in mind that Rodgers' target release is "around" 3 seconds for deep drops or play-action, and "under 2 seconds" for three-step drops and under. Considering Rodgers (68%) and Favre (71%) dropped back in three steps or under a similar amount of times, they should be in the same ballpark in the final column for dropback percentage. They were not.

For the record, Rodgers' "release" on the sacks was taken on first contact. On his two runs, it was taken when he made the decision to run.

Here are a few additional charts.

This one breaks Rodgers' passing with a release time of 2.25 seconds, where he was clearly most effective.

Note where most of the sacks occurred and his dropback percentage. It seems Rodgers would have been better served, at least in that specific game against that specific opponent, sticking to McCarthy's gameplan. Even if that meant he needed to alter his play for that game.

The following chart breaks down each quarterback's ball release:

Note where Favre and Rodgers were each over 20%.

Finally, extrapolating on the previous chart, here's how each quarterback fared according to release time.

A few other notes:

* As we mentioned in the story, the biggest difference in Favre and Rodgers is that Favre knows he has no choice but to get rid of the football. He can't scramble anymore. Rodgers can run and his legs are a huge weapon that he wants to keep as an option. Clearly he would rather run if nothing's open than just throw a ball away. He has that option. Favre does not. Rodgers is still learning how to balance both. Against teams like the Rams, Lions and Browns, that usually isn't a problem. But against a better defense, like the Vikings, Rodgers seems to have trouble adjusting. It will be interesting to see if has similar problems against the better defenses the Packers will face, like the 49ers, Ravens, Steelers and Seahawks. Rodgers might be better served having two gameplans based on opponents.
* Favre continues to be a marvel when it comes to the different ways he releases the ball -- but still in a timely matter. Not counting the 7.33 seconds he had on the 25-yard completion, Favre either pump-faked, rolled out, had a short boot, performed play-action or went to his backside read on 13 of his 31 throws (41.9%). His average release time on those was still 2.62 seconds. His stats: 10 of 13 for 91 yards and 3 TDs.
* Rodgers did the same -- throwing out his rollout sack by Ben Leber which took 6 seconds and a run, where he took off after 7.62 seconds -- on 13 of his 47 dropbacks (27.6%). His average release time on those plays was 3.71. His stats: 7 of 10 for 126 yards and 1 TD, two sacks and a run.
* On almost all, Favre is doing those extracurricular activities with the intent of freeing a receiver. Rodgers does that on occasion, but not nearly that often.
* Here are the times Rodgers had before being sacked from lowest to highest: 2.13, 2.53, 2.78, 2.94, 3.07, 3.75, 4.22, 6.00. Average: 3.42.
* And for all the talk of Rodgers being pounded all game, I only found two legit quarterback hits on plays other than the sacks.


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RaiderPride
15 years ago
NOW THIS.... Is a great thread. (Thanks Zero.)

"Z"makes a great point... This is a great read.

Yooper... You need to apply for a job as a writer on NBC's Dateline. I understand the job pays very well.
""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
tromadz
15 years ago
And he shouldn't go changing. Look what we did last year on offense. It was awesome. It's basically the same squad. I don't care if people think he's "holding it too long." He probably "held it too long" last year too. Block better. Run better routes. If he was fumbling the ball like Big Ben does then I would care. He's not. I don't care. Block better. run better routes.
DGB454
15 years ago

And he shouldn't go changing. Look what we did last year on offense. It was awesome. It's basically the same squad. I don't care if people think he's "holding it too long." He probably "held it too long" last year too. Block better. Run better routes. If he was fumbling the ball like Big Ben does then I would care. He's not. I don't care. Block better. run better routes.

"tromadz" wrote:



I agree except I would add.... catch the ball.
15 years ago
I think as long as Rodgers is QB in green bay we are going to have to live with SOME of the sacks he takes.
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PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago
I think McCarthy put it pretty good when asked. Not an exact quote, but something along the lines of, nobody complains when he holds on and makes a play, only when he holds on and gets sacked.


He was holding on just as long last year, and I don't think I hear all year about his problem holding on to long. Probably because he is 14 away from last years total with 12 games to play.

Edit: stole from Zero all facets thread:

By their estimate, the coaches say Rodgers has been responsible for about five of the 20 sacks, but it could be argued based on film review that the number is as high as 6 or 7. That's a pretty high number and one you'd think the coaches would be hell-bent on changing.



IMO if the line was doing their job and we were sitting 7-10 sacks, nobody would be saying a word.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
shield4life
15 years ago
I'm starting to think ... instead of having an o-line ... could we just line up more WR's and have no o-line. I mean I don't think anyone would actually see the difference and we might even be actually better. More targets for A.R. = less sacks.
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