buckeyepackfan
15 years ago
Beast, everything you are writing IS YOUR OPINION, you have that right, TO STATE YOUR OPINION, I don't agree, that doesn't make you wrong it doesn't make me wrong.

Every GM has to play with the cards he is dealt, it is real obvious that MS had to deal with things differently than TT.

Sherman inherited a team which went 8-8 the year before and was stocked with veteran guys, for the next 5 years he tried to add pieces to the team to get them to the ultimate goal...The Superbowl.

He never reached his goal, but he did what he thought needed to be done.
That doesn't mean he sucked as GM, it means he tried what he thought was best for the team at that given moment.

TT's situation was completely different, had he taken over when MS did I am betting he would have handled it pretty much the same way.

That is why I argue that you cannot compare the two, because it was two completely different situations.

You don't agree, fine , no sense to continue arguing, because i don't agree with your stance.

I will agree to disagree and never mention it again.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
porky88
15 years ago
Sherman was a terrible GM. Not as bad as Matt Millen, but they weren't far off like some might think. Had Sherman taken over when Thompson had to take over, this team would be competing for last place.

Sherman benefited from Ron Wolf. That simple. Wolf had a ton of players that were still on the team and entering the prime of their career when he stepped down and Sherman received his promotion. The entire offensive line, Brett Favre, Ahman Green, William Henderson, Donald Driver, Mike McKenzie, Darren Sharper, KGB, Bubba Franks, and the list goes on and on.

Most if not all of the good players under Mike Sherman were Ron Wolf holdovers. Sherman made some good calls like getting Aaron Kampman, Grady Jackson, and trading for Al Harris. So did Matt Millen like selecting Ernie Simms and Calvin Johnson.

As a Head Coach Sherman was average and his downfall was not putting a tighter leash on Favre. He gave that special treatment to him. Favre earned it, but that doesn't mean it was the right call. I actually see a lot of Sherman in Brad Childress and that could be a problem Minnesota has.

As a GM though, Sherman was not good at all and it's why Thompson had to replenish the roster like he did.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I like this comparison.

George Seifert has one of the highest winning percentages for a coach in the history of the NFL. He's up there and he has two Super Bowls yet he's not in the Hall of Fame and probably never will be.

Why?

Everyone knows Bill Walsh was the reason for their success and not Seifert who was terrible in Carolina.

Sherman is now struggling at Texas A&M. He can't build that program up.

My point is Ron Wolf was the reason for the early to mid 2000s Packers' success and not Mike Sherman. I credit Wolf and Favre more than anyone to why GB was good in the years prior to Thompson taking over.
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beast
15 years ago

it means he tried what he thought was best for the team at that given moment.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



Well what he did very dumb.... didn't add good depth and just over paid everyone.... and he put Packers between a rock and a hard place.... that' why he failed.... not because he did what he thought was best.... but his actions forced the Packers into a corner where they had no choice but to basically fire him as GM. He failed because he didn't do the job of a GM and stay with in the cap.... and he didn't add young.... That's GM 101 .... if he couldn't figure that out he's incredible dumb ..... first is why I'm sure he figured it out.... just couldn't do it.

because it was two completely different situations.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



ummm last time I checked the situation from 03 to 07 was about the same and they did different things....

I judge the team... and the team had no depth... and went over the cap... how isn't that failing? Honestly not spending more than your allowed is business 101.... Sherman failed because he could do that.... and he didn't had too much talent...

You keep wanting to make this about Thompson... I'm not saying much of anything about Thompson.....

my point is Sherman failed under his situation....... that's it.... and Thompson hasn't failed because he's not going close to the cap and he's adding talent and very good depth.

You just keep looking for a back door to get out of this.... it's point blank Sherman failed under his situation as GM.....
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beast
15 years ago

Sherman was a terrible GM. Not as bad as Matt Millen, but they weren't far off like some might think. Had Sherman taken over when Thompson had to take over, this team would be competing for last place.

Sherman benefited from Ron Wolf. That simple. Wolf had a ton of players that were still on the team and entering the prime of their career when he stepped down and Sherman received his promotion. The entire offensive line, Brett Favre, Ahman Green, William Henderson, Donald Driver, Mike McKenzie, Darren Sharper, KGB, Bubba Franks, and the list goes on and on.

Most if not all of the good players under Mike Sherman were Ron Wolf holdovers. Sherman made some good calls like getting Aaron Kampman, Grady Jackson, and trading for Al Harris. So did Matt Millen like selecting Ernie Simms and Calvin Johnson.

As a Head Coach Sherman was average and his downfall was not putting a tighter leash on Favre. He gave that special treatment to him. Favre earned it, but that doesn't mean it was the right call. I actually see a lot of Sherman in Brad Childress and that could be a problem Minnesota has.

As a GM though, Sherman was not good at all and it's why Thompson had to replenish the roster like he did.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I like this comparison.

George Seifert has one of the highest winning percentages for a coach in the history of the NFL. He's up there and he has two Super Bowls yet he's not in the Hall of Fame and probably never will be.

Why?

Everyone knows Bill Walsh was the reason for their success and not Seifert who was terrible in Carolina.

Sherman is now struggling at Texas A&M. He can't build that program up.

My point is Ron Wolf was the reason for the early to mid 2000s Packers' success and not Mike Sherman. I credit Wolf and Favre more than anyone to why GB was good in the years prior to Thompson taking over.

"porky88" wrote:



+1 .... another example is Vince Lombardi........ bad maybe horrible GM and I would say he failed too as a GM just like Sherman. Both Lombardi and Sherman had GREAT GMs before them which they coached and got good records off of. Lombardi is one of if not the best coach ever and had some of the best records but still didn't do a good job as GM. Sherman is like Lombardi.... well other than Sherman was a worse coach...... it's hard for anybody to live up to Lombardi.

Just because they have a good record doesn't mean anything about there teams. And remember it takes 3 years to judge a draft.... so it sometimes takes 5 years to judge a GM.

Sherman failed as GM by going over the cap and by not adding talent.... it's that simple........
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Sherman netted Ahman Green, I will say that was very good. Fred Vinson for Ahman Green? I'll do that anyday.
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beast
15 years ago

Sherman netted Ahman Green, I will say that was very good. Fred Vinson for Ahman Green? I'll do that anyday.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I think he also got Harris, Kampman, Davenport, Barnett, Williams and Wells. But these drafts are still pretty bad.

Also I know Sherman wasn't officially the GM for 2001 but Wolf said Sherman basically made the calls while he stayed as the officially GM to keep pressure off, in which I blame both of them. But if you look at there draft styles Wolf usually drafted 8 or more while Sherman usually drafted 6 so between Wolf's word and style of the draft I count 2001 as both of there draft.

he sure didn't like the 2nd round... he traded the 2nd round away a lot...

2004 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson
3 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State
6 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas State
7 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee
2003 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State
3 79 Kenny Peterson DE Ohio State
5 147 James Lee DT Oregon State
5 166 Hunter Hillenmeyer LB Vanderbilt
6 212 Brennan Curtin T Notre Dame
7 245 Chris Johnson DB Louisville
7 253 DeAndrew Rubin -- South Florida
7 256 Carl Ford WR Toledo
7 257 Steve Josue LB Carson-Newman
2002 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Javon Walker WR Florida State
3 92 Marques Anderson SS UCLA
4 135 Najeh Davenport FB Miami (Fla.)
5 156 Aaron Kampman DE Iowa
5 164 Craig Nall QB Northwestern State-Louisiana
6 200 Mike Houghton G San Diego State
2001 - Green Bay Packers
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 10 Jamal Reynolds DE Florida State
2 41 Robert Ferguson WR Texas A&M
3 71 Bhawoh Jue SS Penn State
3 72 Torrance Marshall LB Oklahoma
4 105 Bill Ferrario G Wisconsin
6 198 David Martin TE Tennessee
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buckeyepackfan
15 years ago
Damn Beast I guess your are just not going to drop it.

You say a GM's job is to stock a team with players and stay under the cap?

Doesn't matter if they win or lose as long as they stay under the cap and always have that "young potential".

Ok then Ted Thompson is the best ever.

IMHO a GM's job is to put a winning team on the field. A team can be loaded with all the potential in the world, if they can't win football games, it doesn't matter.

We disagree what a GM's job is. Nobody's right, nobody's wrong.

I 'll tell you one thing you will never hear from me, that is when TT's reign is over, you will never hear blame him for any of his predessecors problems or failures.

This whole thing started with your back-handed comment about Mike Sherman(along with favre bashing which is expected), it's been 5 years, it can't be Mike Shermans or Brett Favre fault anymore.

You say Ted Thompson has done a great job in you opinion.

I say this is the year that Ted Thompson is going to be judged on. No more excuses, no more scapegoats. Ted Thompson has made this his team, now let's see what they can do.

Believe me when I say this, I won't be the spouting off that this player sucks or Ted Thompson should have kept this guy instead of that guy, and I won't be the one calliing for his head if The Packers don't win this year.

THe Packer as an organization makes decisions, my opinion doesn't matter, nor does yours, but I seem to be able to move on, unlike you who always have to be right or always have to find someone else to blame for the shortcomings of The GM.HC, or team.

I'm done with this, mods you can delete if you want, obviously someone opinion is wrong if some on the forum don't agree.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
beast
15 years ago

Damn Beast I guess your are just not going to drop it.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



O snap... little Packers could be watching :cyclopsani: no need for that first word... and no I don't really care but someone might.

I'm just responding to your post... just like your doing to mine... so I guess you shouldn't be getting upset at me for something your also doing.

Doesn't matter if they win or lose as long as they stay under the cap and always have that "young potential".

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



Yes it matters but that's a lot more on the coach than the GM... GM is a lot term thing... coach is more right now.

Ok then Ted Thompson is the best ever.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



Ummm I don't think anyone but you is saying that....


This whole thing started with your back-handed comment about Mike Sherman(along with favre bashing which is expected), it's been 5 years, it can't be Mike Shermans or Brett Favre fault anymore.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



Yeah I'm not blaming Sherman or Favre for the current..... your just making that up like saying Thompson is the best ever....

You say Ted Thompson has done a great job in you opinion.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



No he's doing a good job at getting MM young guys with potential and he's staying cap friendly where he can resign the players that are doing well. Something Sherman couldn't always do because he didn't have the cap room.

I say this is the year that Ted Thompson is going to be judged on. No more excuses, no more scapegoats. Ted Thompson has made this his team, now let's see what they can do.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



I don't understand why your saying no more scapegoating for Thompson when clearly you gave Sherman scapegoat over and over... saying he shouldn't of been offered the job and it was a different. I'm not the one making the scapegoats... you are....

Believe me when I say this, I won't be the spouting off that this player sucks or Ted Thompson should have kept this guy instead of that guy, and I won't be the one calliing for his head if The Packers don't win this year.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



Well that's your choice... I'll be doing some of that stuff :thumbleft:

but I seem to be able to move on, unlike you who always have to be right or always have to find someone else to blame for the shortcomings of The GM.HC, or team.

"buckeyepackfan" wrote:



Ummm nope now your just being a hypocrite....... what's the phase, it takes two to tango....... and your just as guilty as that as I am.... plus your complaining I haven't left it alone...... well nether have you..... so even more being a hypocrite. I'm not complaining about us talking about the issue.

Ummm I'm wrong a lot..... I have not problem being wrong... but I really don't think I am with Sherman failing as a GM.

Also you did blame GB management for giving Sherman the job..... so more being a hypocrite.

I really think you should stop blaming and attacking me for things we're both doing....
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IronMan
15 years ago
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porky88
15 years ago

Sherman netted Ahman Green, I will say that was very good. Fred Vinson for Ahman Green? I'll do that anyday.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I'm pretty sure that was Ron Wolf too. I'm actually positive. Green was picked up in 2000 via that trade. Wolf left in 2001.
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