warhawk
15 years ago

I think one of the most underscored sports stories of last year is what Rodgers did in that first game when he had millions of people watching and a very split citizenship on whether or not he should have even been the starting QB in that game.

When a guy can perform like that under those conditions all I can say is a lot of what he may face will be a walk in the park compared to what it must have felt like under center for that first snap.

"pack93z" wrote:



This I will agree to... but beyond that first game was it really extraordinary?

"warhawk" wrote:



How would it have looked if he hadn't been asked to bring the team out of the hole in half (eight) the games and we had won 10 ball games?

I think your statement here to a degree reflects what Packer fans have come to know as a "typical" year production wise while 20 other teams fans would sell their mother for those kind of numbers.

If he puts up 4000+ and 28 every year I'm a happy camper. The other 44 guys on the roster do better than they did last year that will equate to a hell of a lot of wins.

This guy was put in a situation where he knew full well if things started going bad for him and he didn't produce positive numbers the wave of negativity would have been so great he would have been ridden out on a rail and maybe never have recovered.

This was not a case where "well, have patience, he's a first year starter it may take a year or two." He screws up last year and he's done. Period.
He was brought to the table at a high cost and deemed ready and had that not shown thru no jet could have gotten his butt out of town fast enough. It would have only required three seats. One for the pilot, one for Rodgers, and one for Thompson.

I think that's enough pressure for anybody.
"The train is leaving the station."
Pack93z
15 years ago

I think one of the most underscored sports stories of last year is what Rodgers did in that first game when he had millions of people watching and a very split citizenship on whether or not he should have even been the starting QB in that game.

When a guy can perform like that under those conditions all I can say is a lot of what he may face will be a walk in the park compared to what it must have felt like under center for that first snap.

"warhawk" wrote:



This I will agree to... but beyond that first game was it really extraordinary?

"pack93z" wrote:



How would it have looked if he hadn't been asked to bring the team out of the hole in half (eight) the games and we had won 10 ball games?

I think your statement here to a degree reflects what Packer fans have come to know as a "typical" year production wise while 20 other teams fans would sell their mother for those kind of numbers.

If he puts up 4000+ and 28 every year I'm a happy camper. The other 44 guys on the roster do better than they did last year that will equate to a hell of a lot of wins.

This guy was put in a situation where he knew full well if things started going bad for him and he didn't produce positive numbers the wave of negativity would have been so great he would have been ridden out on a rail and maybe never have recovered.

This was not a case where "well, have patience, he's a first year starter it may take a year or two." He screws up last year and he's done. Period.
He was brought to the table at a high cost and deemed ready and had that not shown thru no jet could have gotten his butt out of town fast enough. It would have only required three seats. One for the pilot, one for Rodgers, and one for Thompson.

I think that's enough pressure for anybody.

"warhawk" wrote:



Was it difficult? I agree. Was it beyond what a number one pick of a desperate franchise with little or no tools to work with faces? Different for sure, but debatable. Add to it that he was being prepped for three years for that moment.

Again... I am proud of how and what Aaron accomplished in 08.. no doubt. But was it really outside of the overall plan that was set in motion for the last couple of years?

Ted upon taking the job in 05 knew sooner or later he was going to have to deal with the departure of Brett Favre. He used draft upon draft to build the depth and pieces of the offense to ensure success after that departure.

Players like Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Jackson, Grant and Lee were added to provide a solid core around the successor. Rodgers himself was added to groom behind #4.. this was to plan.

Yes the departure was rougher than anyone could have predicted.. no doubt, but in the grand scheme of everything known leading up to the 08 season.. it was drawn to a tee.

That isn't taking away from what Rodgers did.. but it is framing it within the situation.. it was part of the plan. Part of the seven P's of success.

Too bad the defense spit the bit.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
15 years ago

I admire the wisdom here on Packers Discussion.

I would just like to see if the forum members can name JUST ONE.

Just one "Young First Year Starter" as an NFL QB, who has gone through more bull shit, fish bowl-looking glass, playing field, locker room scrutiny, hell hole opportunity, to make a first time, first year impression, that put up the numbers and stats that Aaron put up last year.

I just want to learn here... I need to know who has gone through more, and came out better than Rodgers did last year.

There is a great deal of NFL Historical Knowledge in this forum.

So... Go ahead and make the list.

Serious... Think about it... Think about what Aaron has gone through, and name ONE QB in NFL History who has handled it better, and put up better numbers.

There has to be one out there.

"RaiderPride" wrote:



Steve Young immediately comes to mind. But then, I looked at his stats and completely forgot he did start with Tampa Bay, so that's not exactly accurate.

But the comparison is there. Young was actually hated by a lot of folks in San Francisco. Keep in mind, before Montana, the Niners sucked and sucked for years. Then Joe Montana comes in and they win 4 SBs.

There was a lot of bitterness, and I actually think more so, but then again, I was in SF when it happened and I'm not in Green Bay to witness how badly Rodgers was treated, so I'm biased.
My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
zombieslayer
15 years ago


I think your statement here to a degree reflects what Packer fans have come to know as a "typical" year production wise while 20 other teams fans would sell their mother for those kind of numbers.

"warhawk" wrote:



Exactly. Packer fans have become, "spoiled."
My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
musccy
15 years ago
Pack93.

I agree that TT, at least on paper, set things up around the QB, esp. with a deep WR group, for AR, BF, or whomever, to succeed long term. Unexpectedly the defense and Grant took a nosedive last year that would have hindered the performance of whoever was the QB.

I see what you're saying about a 1st rounder...I wouldn't want to be Stafford this year! However, AR was a 1st rounder as well, so he's got that on his shoulders just like Russell, Stafford, Smith, and although he had a 3 year maturation process, many attributed the exodus of BF to AR (whether directly or indirectly) and that's a lot of additional pressure that any 1st rounder isn't going to experience.
Pack93z
15 years ago
This has been a fun and civil debate.. I have enjoyed it over some of the normal same old discussions.. Hats off to all.

Whether or not we agree on the level of additional pressure that was placed upon Rodgers or not.. the end result is we are sitting in a pretty good place with a high chance to succeed going forward.

Good problem to have at QB.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
15 years ago


I agree that Ted Thompson, at least on paper, set things up around the QB, esp. with a deep WR group, for Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, or whomever, to succeed long term. Unexpectedly the defense and Grant took a nosedive last year that would have hindered the performance of whoever was the QB.

"musccy" wrote:



Without intentionally trying to steer this off topic, I think it's a good thing Ted Thompson is on paper trying to set things up around the QB. I strongly think the future of the NFL will be a lot more passing and a lot less rushing.

The whole WCO started in the 70s, but didn't really take off until the 80s because it was Walsh who could not only make the WCO work, he had the defense that was supposed to go with it. That was Coryell's mistake in the 70s and early 80s - he never had a D.

Now half the teams in the NFL are WCO. But look at the new rules in the past few years - they're all favoring QBs and making it easier to pass (and also turning QBs into sissies, but that's an entirely different rant).

With these new rules favorite passers, coaches would be fools not to pass more unless they have elite RBs which only a handful of teams do (Minnesota, Atlanta, San Diego did, but his best years are behind him, etc.).

Even if Grant looks more like the '07 Grant instead of the '08 "I get tackled by the first guy who touches me" Grant, I'd still rather see more screens to Brandon Jackson and Wynn. We win games by scoring points. We just need our D to do their share and stop allowing so many freaking points.
My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
voiceofreason
15 years ago

Aaron Rodgers QB Cal Jr. 62 220
By: Robert Davis

Aaron Rodgers seemingly came out of nowhere last year to become one of college footballs best quarterbacks. Rodgers took over in Cals 5th game of the year last year, and ended up completing 61.9% of his passes for 2,903 yards, 19 touchdowns to 5 interceptions, and also ran for 5 touchdowns. The year before at Butte(CA) College, Rodgers completed 61.9% of his passes for 2,408 yards, a 28-4 TD/INT ratio, and ran for 7 more touchdowns. Cal stumbled upon Rodgers while they were recruiting current Cal TE Garrett Cross at Butte, and they have taken off since. The most impressive thing about Rodgers is that he is currently only 20 years old, and will not turn 21 until December 2nd. If he were to declare this year, he will be 21 years old during his rookie season.

Rodgers is an awesome quarterback prospect. He has a strong, accurate throwing arm and is capable of making all the throws. Rodgers shows good mobility to elude the rush in the pocket, and can make some plays with his feet outside it. What I believe pushes Rodgers to the top of the QB class, along with Matt Leinart, are the intangibles he possesses. Rodgers is tough, and will stand in the pocket to deliver the ball. He rarely forces the ball into coverage, and does a great job of taking what the defense gives him underneath. Hell kill you underneath, and then when you slip up deep, hell beat you there too. He was named a team captain during his first year at Cal as a 19 year old, so it shows you the type of leadership ability he brings to the table.

Rodgers has very few weaknesses. His biggest weakness has nothing to do with his football skill, and that is his size. While he is listed at 62 220 on the Cal website, he does not appear to be that big. He could very well end up in the 6 210 range, which would push him down the draft boards a bit. Also, despite his success, Rodgers is still relatively inexperienced. Hes started less than two seasons at the Division 1 level, and will only be 21 should he declare this year.

Aaron Rodgers is going to be a very good NFL QB, no matter what he measures up as. On the field, he looks a lot like Drew Brees did a few years ago at Purdue, and the Drew Brees of this season in the NFL. If Rodgers is 62, he may indeed find himself taken in the Top 10 of the draft. If he checks in a little shorter, hell slide a bit, but should still be a 1st round selection.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2005/prospects/aaron_rodgers.html 



Just thought everyone would want something positive. Dont crown the guy yet, but dont nitpick either. He was no slouch coming out of college, and I think people forget that. I think comparing him to matt fucking cassell is an insult. Bottom line, HE PLAYED WELL! As fans lets assume the best instead of the worst. You'll have more fun I swear.
blank
dhpackr
15 years ago
Steve Young, Danny White, and really, your lover boy (#12 Aaron Rodgers QB for the Green Bay Packers) was in his fourth year, not his first!
So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
dfosterf
15 years ago
Aaron Rodgers had it 100% correct the first time when he told everyone to get on board or shut up. Ya, that's right. What good does it do to place additional pressure upon him...poised to boo/whatever. This statement is nuanced in the sense that I don't think he should have said it, and I am about 99 44/100% sure he regretted having done so.

Arrogant fans with a false sense of ownership. The pressure he felt was both literal and figurative. The comparison to NE's back-up QB is false. When that kid had time, he played like Tom Brady. When he didn't, he sucked. So does Tom Brady. Our kid is pretty damn good without any time. As 93z pointed out, he is slower to release than Brett, and this has been quantified by looking at his "drop back" time on his interceptions vs. Favre's. He is .7 seconds slower than Brett.

The good news is it isn't his release. As Z ALSO said, he had some difficulty in his progressions. He said so himself, citing the capacity to get through about 50% of his reads on a typical play, which is about typical for a first year starter. What makes him BETTER THAN BRETT FAVRE is that he is not an "anticipatory passer." He DOES NOT throw that 3 step drop pass where the receiver has not broke off yet...Brett threw /throws it ALOT--Brett gets picked ALOT, and makes his release LOOK quicker than it really is.

Rodgers compensated for his inability to get through all his progressions by TAKING OFF--he added a dimension to our offense that is at once dangerous and positive. Dangerous in the sense that we might have to put a back-up quarterback in because Rodgers got flattened. Positive because the defense, especially the linebackers, have to either account for the real possibility that Rodgers is going to take off--or pay a price for not doing so.

My feeling is that Aaron Rodgers is only going to get better. Ted failed him in the sense that he did not prioritize a superior offensive line to protect him. This kid needed more time than he got last year. That doesn't make him worse than Favre, it makes him different. Favre didn't need that time, but we paid for it, with those picks, imo.

Long term, from what I have seen, this kid has more potential than the annoited one. I earned the right to say that, imo. I have seen 'em all since the early 60's, + it is the opinion of one. My trash went out on the correct day this week, as always, to bolster my argument.

Ted is the man. He knew what he had, and he had the mettle to stick to his decision...The politics of it are for here and other forums, not the National Football League.
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