zombieslayer
16 years ago
Bart Starr

1960 - 21 34 178 1 0 20
Comments - This was our infamous loss to the Eagles, where Vince Lombardi said he never wanted to lose another Playoff loss again.

1961 - 10 17 164 3 0 38
Comments - Holy ****! A near perfect game. We beat the Giants 37-0 to win Lombardi's 1st Championship of the 60s.

1962 - 9 21 85 0 0 17
Comments - A nasty defensive battle. Nothing works for rushing and passing for both teams. Starr lays up a turd, but the Packers still pull out a win by four points.

1965 - 10 18 147 1 1 47
Comments - This is the first of 3 straight Championships for the almighty Packers of the 60s. Starr didn't have to do much, but was efficient.

SB I - 16 23 250 10.9 2 1 37 116.2
Comments - Besides that INT, a near perfect game. Starr gets the first SB MVP.

SB II - 13 24 202 8.4 1 0 62 96.2
Comments - Starr gets his 2nd SB MVP.

Summary - In six Championships, Starr has 8 TDs and 2 INTs, 2 SB MVPs, and only laid one turd.

Otto Graham

Sorry everyone. No stats prior to 1950, so I only have 1950 on.
1950 - 22 33 298 4 1 39
Comments - Graham throws for 4 TDs in a 30-28 shootout win against the Rams. Graham and the Browns win the Championship

1951 - 19 40 280 1 3 26
Comments - Rams get their revenge. Graham lays a turd in the loss with 3 INTs.

1952 - 20 35 191 0 1 32
Comments - The Lions win this Championship. Graham has a mediocre day.

1953 - 2 15 20 0 2 13
Comments - Yikes. This looks like a misprint, this was so bad. What's this rating? I bet something close to zero. Oh, the Browns lost to the Lions. No surprise looking at those pathetic stats.

1954 - 9 12 163 3 2 45
Comments - Absolutely incredible day for Graham. What you don't see in these stats is that Graham ran for another 3 TDs. That gives him 6 TDs total in this revenge slaughter of the Lions.

1955 - 14 25 209 2 3 50
Comments - And in Graham's very last game, they win yet another Championship. What's not seen once again is that Graham can run. Add 2 TD runs to those stats.

Summary - A big incomplete. I can't honestly say one way or another without a complete record.

Joe Montana

SB 16 - 14 22 157 1 0 22 100.0
Comments - Add another TD on the ground. The Niner rushing game is awful and Montana does what he has to do to win this game.

SB 19 - 24 35 331 3 0 40 127.2
Comments - Add another TD on the ground. As if his performance in SB 16 was impressive, this one tops it. He's absolutely incredible against Miami.

SB 23 - 23 36 357 2 0 44
Comments - Montana is incredible in the air. Jerry Rice has 215 receiving yards, but the most important play of the game was the only pass John Taylor caught, the TD catch in the very last drive of the game where the Niners won 20-16. This drive was one of the most clutch drives of all-time in one of the most exciting SBs of all-time.

SB 24 - 22 29 297 5 0 38 147.6
Comments - Montana is near perfect in one of the best SB performances ever by a QB. The guy on the other side, John Elway, stinks it up with zero TDs and 2 INTs. The other thing that is impressive is the Niner running game stalls. Lots of carries, not that many yards. So the scoring comes via Joe Montana's highly accurate arm.

Summary - 4 SBs, 4 SB wins. 11 TDs, 0 INTs. Yes, that's right, 11 TDs and 0 INTs. 2 TDs rushing. SB MVP in '81, '84, '89.

That, my friends, is clutch. So, when we talk clutch, if Joe Montana isn't the first name that comes to your head, you didn't read this post.
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porky88
16 years ago

Elway is the greatest QB ever in my view and in terms of clutch it's him Montana and Brady. That much is for certain. Actually come to think of it those three are probably the best ever in terms of more modern football.

Favre was clutch too. He's certainly in the running for a top ten, but hard to take out anyone on this list. Maybe Steve Young.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Porky - You're kidding, right?

We're talking clutch here, and clutch is when it matters most. Take a look at John Elway's SB stats and immediately, he should be dropped off the list.

SB 21: 22 37 304 8.2 1 1 54 83.6
comments - mediocre, especially when on the other side, Phil Simms completed 22 out of 25 passes with 3 TDs and no INTs. Clutch? Um, no. Simms though was.

SB 22: 14 38 257 6.8 1 3 56 36.8
comments - Whoa. Is the Zombieslayer making this up? Heh. No, I'm not. John Elway really did this poorly. Remind me not to depend on John Elway when we the zombie plague starts or we'll all be zombies.

SB 24: 10 26 108 4.2 0 2 27 19.4
comments - As if his last SB sucked enough, this one he's even worse. Anyone who puts John Elway and clutch in the same sentence you wonder what they're smoking.

SB 32: 12 22 123 5.6 0 1 36 51.9
comments - Elway should drop to his knees and kiss Terrell Davis on the buttocks, for had the Broncos gone to the air that game, Favre, Reggie, and friends would have 2 SB rings. Easily. Favre on the other hand threw for 3 TDs and had a 91.0 QB rating.

SB 33: 18 29 336 11.6 1 1 80 99.2
comments - So, John Elway finally gets it right after FIVE chances. FIVE! One for five. That's even bad for baseball.

So, five SBs, 8 INTs, and only 3 TDs. Like I said before, clutch and John Elway don't belong in the same sentence.

"porky88" wrote:



Why do you only look at one game?

dhazer hit it right one the head. He won 5 AFC Championship games to get to 5 Super bowls. He was 2-3 in Super Bowls which isn't bad.

1, TD, 1 INT for 244 yards against Cleveland in 86.

3 TD's, 1 INT, for 281 yards against Cleveland in 87.

3 TD's 0 INT's for 385 yards against Cleveland in 89.

2 TD's 1 INT for 210 yards against Pittsburgh in 97.

1 TD, 0 INT for 173 yards against the Jets in 98.

10 TD's 3 INT's for give or take 1,300 yards in five AFC Championship Games.

If you don't think AFC or NFC Title games are big or clutch then I would ask this.

Was the ICE Bowl a big game?

Obviously it was and so were those games.

Yes he had Terrell Davis to thank. Just like Montana might not be the player he was without Bill Walsh. No way is Favre the player he is without Mike Holmgren and no GB doesn't win a Super Bowl without the likes of Reggie White or even Leroy Butler or dare I say Fritz Shurmur. Goes on and on. Football is a team sport period.

Elway played on inferior teams that went up against some of the best teams of all time. That San Fran team is No. 1 in a lot of people's eyes.

I don't need numbers to tell me Elway was good. I need my eyes. Brady was never a numbers player outside of his one season. Manning was. Who is better?

I'll take Brady on the field.

Same way I look at Elway. Not a numbers man although five of his final six seasons were statistically respectable. I'll take him because when the going got tough, he got going. Denver never had a shot in those other three games. I doubt any of the top AFC Teams of that time could've beaten the 3rd or 4th best NFC Team. Maybe the Bills, but it was one sided then. Way more now than ever and people think it's one sided now.
Gravedigga
16 years ago

Elway is the greatest QB ever in my view and in terms of clutch it's him Montana and Brady. That much is for certain. Actually come to think of it those three are probably the best ever in terms of more modern football.

Favre was clutch too. He's certainly in the running for a top ten, but hard to take out anyone on this list. Maybe Steve Young.

"porky88" wrote:



It's hard to be "clutch" when your team is always blowing their opponents out. Doesnt give you much chance to be clutch.
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You are weak, pathetic and immature..............I would have d
zombieslayer
16 years ago
Porky - You and I will just have to agree to disagree. I spent enough time researching stats that show that Elway folded in SBs. He was downright awful. Horrible.

So, he got you there, then he folded. I just don't see how folding in the SB is clutch.

And yes, it's a team sport. But it would be like Emmitt Smith fumbling 3 times each SB, or your stud LT allowing 3 sacks each SB, etc.

I saw every SB since '76, and saw Elway bumbling whereas Joe was the ultimate in cool. I'll take Joe, Steve Young, or even Tom Brady. You can have Elway.

Now to answer your question - sure the Ice Bowl was clutch, but immediately after the Ice Bowl, he got the SB MVP, so that's a bad example.

It's all about helping your team get rings. Heck, I'm not even including my favorite player ever and he was outstanding in one SB and pretty good in the other, outplaying your John Elway, who played with a superior OL and a superior RB, no offense to Dorsey Levens but let's be real.
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British
16 years ago
I'm glad to see a QB who never won a SB is named as most clutch QB of all time.

With that sort of simplistic thinking it would have been easy to knock him down the list.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
Frankly, I cringed to see Dan Marino's name on the list for much the same reason I cringed to see John Elway's name mentioned in this conversation.

Marino was king of the regular season, but he was mediocre to downright bad in the postseason. Twice he played withe the number-one defense in the league and played with a couple other top-five defenses. He had stunning running games that ground out 1900 to over 2000 yards in a season. Yet he was never able to get it done in the postseason. Consider this quote :

Myth: Marino was a big-game quarterback.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Want to know the real reason why Marino never won a Super Bowl? Sadly, the answer sits with Dan Marino himself.

Simply put, Marino did not elevate his game in the playoffs. In fact, his played dropped off quite noticeably. Marino has a career regular season passer rating of 86.4. His postseason passer rating was just 77.1. He played in 18 playoff games, and won just eight of them.

In his one Super Bowl appearance (a 38-16 loss to the 49ers in Super Bowl XIX), Marino completed 29 of 50 passes for 318 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. It adds up to a weak 66.9 passer rating.
One wonders what might have happened had his two Super Bowl drives that ended in interceptions ended in touchdowns instead.

Remember that 1998 Miami team that had the best defense in football? It made the playoffs, but Marino failed to hold up his end of the bargain. The season ended in the second round of the playoffs, with Marino coughing up two interceptions against Denver and posting a passer rating of just 65.5. Yet another opportunity for Marino to win a Super Bowl tossed into the hands of an opposing defender.

In fact, Marino threw at least one interception in 13 of his 18 career playoff games. He threw two or more interceptions 10 times. The Dolphins went just 1-9 in those 10 Marino multi-interception playoff games.



Clutch in the regular season Marino may have been, but not in the postseason. He had downright Elwayesque numbers in the Super Bowl.

Contrast this to the performance of Joe Namath, who won the Super Bowl not on the strength his performance, but by not making mistakes :

Now consider the case of Joe Namath, who is best remembered for guaranteeing a victory over the Baltimore Colts in Super Bowl III and going on to win the games Most Valuable Player award. Namath won the award not for what he did on the field that day, but for what he did not do: He did not throw a single touchdown. But nor did he throw a single interception.

Nobody remembers that Namath failed to find the end zone with his golden arm that day. All they remember is that he lifted his team to the biggest upset in NFL history. He lifted his team because, if for no other reason, he kept the ball out of the hands of the Baltimore defense.

His Colts counterparts, Earl Morrall and Johnny Unitas, were picked off four times that day. The 1968 Colts entered that game as the most dominant team of the Super Bowl Era. But even their historic dominance was not enough to overcome those four interceptions on a day when the opposing quarterback failed to throw even one.

If Namath throws four INTs that day, the Jets lose, the Colts go down as one of the great teams in NFL history and Namath today is not in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

All people would have remembered is that he couldn't win the big game.



People like to ridicule the game managers, but the fact is they often get the job done when it counts, in situations in which more flashy quarterbacks get rattled and fold under pressure.
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dhazer
16 years ago
ok for Elways defense and his supposedly sucking in the super bowls, i will say this. We all pretty much agree that defense wins championships so tell me what kind of qb can win games when your defense gives up these kinds of points. Look at the scores and teams they played.


super bowl 21 Giants 39 Broncos 20
super bowl 22 Redskins 42 Broncos 10
super bowl 24 49ers 55 Broncos 10
super bowl 32 Packers 24 Broncos 31
super bowl 33 Falcons 19 Broncos 34


Notice when he had a chance to be in a normal game he won.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
The fact that the defense was giving up ridiculous numbers of points doesn't excuse his own lack of output, however. In his first three Super Bowls, the offense only averaged 13.3 points a game. Even with a great defense, that's not going to win you many games. For all his Super Bowls, the Broncos averaged 21 points a game. Not terrible, but not exactly stellar either.
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dhazer
16 years ago
Well non when your down 35-10 at halftime or 27-3 at halftime kinda puts you in a bad situation doesn't it? I think the defense will know what your going to do.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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zombieslayer
16 years ago
All right, Elway lovers. More damning evidence.

Defense wins championships, right? Well, in Elway's 3 SBs that he lost, the Broncos had the #15th, the #7th, and the #1 D in the NFL. Yes, that's right. He lost a SB with the #1 D in the entire NFL.

Now, you may counter that Favre had the #1 D when we lost but you'd be wrong. We were #1 in '96, #5 in 97. In the first year Elway won it, the Broncos were #6 in D and #1 in O, with Terrell Davis rushing for 1750 yards and 15 TDs in the regular season, and one of the best OLs I've ever seen (I still think the Cows OL of the 90s was the best OL I've ever seen). In that second SB, Terrell Davis had 2008 yards rushing and 21 TDs. Wow!

Then in Elway's 5th SB, they had the #2 O and the #8 D.

So I love how Elway lovers love to say how Elway was the ONLY person on the team. Never mind in his 5 SBs, FOUR TIMES he had a top 10 D and one time he had a #1 D.

Summary - Elway folds when the stakes get high. Clutch he is not.
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