beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
a year ago
Projecting Colby Wooden’s Role 

At first glance, Colby Wooden looks like a dubious fit within the defensive scheme run by the Green Bay Packers. The Packers defense tends to prioritize pass defense in how its personnel is deployed, playing with light boxes and asking its trench players to control multiple gaps. Wooden, who measured in at around 280 pounds during his last college season – and less than 275 pounds at the NFL Combine – is not the type of large, stout, gap-eating lineman that seems necessary to run a light-box defense. However, does that mean he can’t fit within the Fangio/Staley-style scheme that the Packers employ?

Despite the early impressions that his lighter weight could convey, there certainly is a role that Wooden can fill in the Packers defense. In fact, multiple iterations of the Fangio/Staley defensive trees have employed similarly light defensive linemen as important components to their scheme. Perhaps the most successful example is Justin Smith, a 285-pound defensive lineman who provided outstanding interior play for Vic Fangio’s 49ers defenses. Of course, Smith was a borderline-dominant presence for years. Colby Wooden doesn’t appear to possess the same elite play strength Smith displayed, and it seems unfair to hold Wooden to such high expectations.

Luckily, there are other examples of lighter defensive tackles succeeding in the Fangio scheme. Morgan Fox, who is listed anywhere between 260 lbs. and 275 lbs. depending on the source, has played extensively for Brandon Staley. Fox recorded a then-career-high 6 sacks in Staley’s 2020 Rams defense, then, after spending a year with the Panthers, achieved a 6.5-sack year with Staley’s Chargers in 2022. Dre’mont Jones, at 281 lbs., is perhaps a better comparison for Colby Wooden based on Wooden’s reported playing weight in college (and the weight that he allegedly returned to after the Combine.) In addition, both Jones and Wooden have 33 3/4″ arms, while Morgan Fox only has 31 3/4″ arms. Jones played for Vic Fangio in 2019, 2020, and 2021 before the Broncos hired Ejiro Evero, a Staley disciple. Jones recorded 22 sacks – including 6.5 in 2022 – and 28 TFLs in that time frame, and received a hefty payday from Seattle in the 2023 offseason. So, how can the roles that Fox and Jones filled in 2022 provide clues regarding Wooden’s usage?


Morgan Fox’s 2022 Role
With the Chargers in 2022, Morgan Fox saw relatively specific usage on early downs. Staley rarely deployed him in early-down four-man fronts, preferring to use the Chargers’ larger defensive linemen for these formations. Fox mostly played in five-man packages – such as base 3-4 formations or Penny nickel fronts- where he aligned as a 4i, 3t, or 5t. In addition, Staley frequently played Fox on the weak side – away from tight ends – to minimize the chances of a double-team affecting him. Put in these positions, Fox was able to focus on slanting to disrupt the run game or stacking and shedding single blocks, such as in this clip, where he aligns as the 3t away from the tight end.

There were certainly times Fox played in less advantageous alignments, such as a 3t in a nickel 4-2-5 front. However, Staley often played him in these situations on certain down-and-distances, such as second and 8 or longer, where a passing play was more probable and a larger gain on the ground was less likely to lead to a 3rd and short.

Fox’s lighter frame may have made it necessary to “protect” him in some situations, but his presence on the field also brought greater disruption on stunts and more effective pass-rush on base downs. He proved to be a disruptive pass-rusher on first and second down, giving the Chargers defense more opportunities to get offenses behind the sticks.

His pass-rush ability was also heavily featured on third downs, where the Chargers often lined him up on the interior and let him use an extensive toolset of rush moves to affect quarterbacks.


Dre’mont Jones’ 2022 Role
In many ways, the role Dre’mont Jones played for the Broncos in 2022 was similar to that Fox filled for the Chargers. Jones usually aligned as a 3t, 4i or 5t – often on the weak side, especially against heavier offensive formations. Ejiro Evero frequently played Jones in five-man fronts, where he received fewer double-teams in the run game.

Jones did see more action on the strong side of formations than Fox did, usually as a 5t or 4t in five-man Under fronts. In these positions, he was able to use his length, quickness and disruptive ability to defeat tackles. Aligning in a 4t (head up on the tackle) also made it harder for guards to get good angles and meaningful movement when they attempted to help their tackles double-team Jones. While not as technically proficient and consistently impactful as an early-down pass-rusher compared to Fox, Jones (#93) still added value through his disruptive ability in the run game.

Jones saw a number of snaps as a 3t in four man fronts, but these usually only came when opposing offenses were turning to heavy shotgun usage or light personnel packages.  Like Morgan Fox, Jones was a major presence on pass-rush downs, lining up both with his hand in the dirt and as a standup rusher. He was not able to cleanly win as consistently as Fox, but still proved disruptive and impactful, using his strength and explosion to win on stunts and power rushes.

Conclusion
While neither Fox nor Jones provide consistent game-breaking ability as interior defensive linemen, both are highly useful players. Fox’s pass-rushing skills boosted the Chargers defense on both base downs and third downs, and he managed to contribute useful snaps against the run when put in advantageous positions. Jones, though not the early-down pass-rush presence that Fox is, helped the Broncos defense become one of the best in the league by leveraging his quickness and length to disrupt the run game as a 3t, 4i, 4t, and 5t. In addition, he proved disruptive and productive when called upon as a third down pass-rusher.  Colby Wooden’s role for the 2022 Packers defense could involve similar usages. Putting him in advantageous schematic alignments and situations could help mitigate any problems his lighter weight might create against the run. It will likely be in the Packers’ best interest to use him frequently in five-man fronts – something that has already been happening in Green Bay’s minicamp practices – while trying to keep him in weak side alignments. It’s unlikely that Wooden will provide the type of immediate impact that Morgan Fox can as an early-down pass-rusher, so Wooden’s usage may end up closer to that of Jones. Leveraging Wooden’s athleticism and length to win one-on-ones or generate disruption in the run game, while inserting him for a number of snaps in designated pass-rush situations, seems like a good way to utilize the young defensive lineman. Although it may be an uphill battle for the fourth-round rookie, there’s an established style of usage in the Fangio/Staley tree of defenses that could help him succeed despite his size.

Note the article had YouTube videos attached and made it better to understand what they meant. 

Great article breaking down how the Packers might be changing up their defensive front scheme. This doesn't just go for Wooden but also could be said for Wyatt (though Wyatt has more potential than others mentioned).

But after the draft I noticed the type of DL the Packers seem to be going for certainly seems to be changing and also was surprised that DT Kenny Clark was talking about OLB Van Ness, more than I've heard other OLBers talk about Van Ness. 

I think we're going to see Van Ness in a role similar to Justin Smith, talked about earlier in this article. Used at both an outside edge rusher but also as a physical 3 tech rushing form the inside at times (which he did all throughout college). Maybe Brooks in a similar role, though more DT for him, and less OLB.

Then Wyatt, Wooden and Brooks as the article talked about as a slanting role, keeping them on the weak sides (away from TEs) to limit the OL double teams they face, but using their quickness as a strength to mess up the OL blocking.
UserPostedImage
a year ago
Beast, this is really an excellent article...thanks for posting.  I strongly suggest going to the actual article to see the videos

I just want to emphasis the last paragraph of the article with is pretty important as we project roster spots [emphasis mine]:

Colby Wooden’s role for the 2022 Packers defense could involve similar usages. Putting him in advantageous schematic alignments and situations could help mitigate any problems his lighter weight might create against the run. It will likely be in the Packers’ best interest to use him frequently in five-man fronts – something that has already been happening in Green Bay’s minicamp practices – while trying to keep him in weak side alignments.


Go Packers!!!!
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
a year ago

Beast, this is really an excellent article...thanks for posting.  I strongly suggest going to the actual article to see the videos

I just want to emphasis the last paragraph of the article with is pretty important as we project roster spots [emphasis mine]:

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



I'm glad some enjoyed it, though one really needs to see the videos that go with it to fully understand. But it matches what I've been thinking since the draft, it was sorta an odd grouping on pass rushers, and that the Packers had long gone with one true 3 tech DT pass rusher at a time. Going from Raji to Mike Daniels, to Keke to Wyatt... that's only one single 3 tech pass rushing DT from when Raji retired in 2015 to 2022.

Then in 2023, to join Wyatt, we get Wooden and Brooks. Also there is Van Ness, whom you don't want to say is a true 3 tech, but when you breakdown his college film, a hell lot of his success came from there. Plus Clark (plays 3 tech, though was a NT first) has talked about Van Ness filling a certain role they do there very nicely (so they very well could be working Van Ness into the 3 tech too).

Basically 8 years of only having a single specialized 3 tech role guy, to now we're added 4 rookies (including  two 1st round picks) that could fill the 3 tech role in two years.

Something is changing or going to be different!


And that article absolutely perfectly lays out the changes we'll probably be seeing on defense. Probably a lot more base package (3-4, that lines up as a 5-2) as you emphasised. 

BUT, also I think they accidentally hammered something else out and I'm not sure if they're saving it, or if they didn't realize it.

They brought up Justin Smith, whom Vic Fangio (the creator of this defensive scheme style) coached from 2011-2014 to three straight 2nd All Pro teams and he PERFECTLY for this role as he was physical enough to bang with the OL, but also athletic enough to play the edge and pass rush.

The one thing I think they missed, the comparison of Justin Smith to Lukas Van Ness.

Yes as the article says Justin Smith BECAME 6'4" 285 lb, but he started out as 6'4" 267 lb, while Van Ness is 6'5" 272 lbs, and played DT for most of his career, even last year when he switched to edge rusher, he still played about 37% of his snaps on the interior and extremely well known for his great 45 degree lean and POWER! And again, Clark (an interior guy) was talking about Van Ness almost like they were filling the same roles, and maybe that's because they are as they will both be playing some 3 tech this year.


Some internet highlights of Justin Smith and how I think Van Ness potentially could be used on the interior (or just a lighter guy on the inside, as the article is about).
​​​​​

UserPostedImage

Note the Bears play below is only rushing 4, but there is a 5th one standing up there and jamming a WR at the line, as there is no one in the backfield on this play
UserPostedImage
​​​​​​
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
wpr (30-May) : It's all good.
beast (30-May) : Yeah, and I enjoyed your comments and just attempted to add to it. Sorry if I did it incorrectly.
wpr (30-May) : Beast I never said Henderson was the salt of the earth. Nor even that he was correct. Just quoting the guy.
Zero2Cool (29-May) : What did you do??
Zero2Cool (29-May) : Whoa
beast (29-May) : OMG the website is now all white, even some white on white text
beast (29-May) : Henderson, who admits to taking cocaine during the Super Bowl against the Steelers, might dislike Bradshaw as he lost two Superbowls to him
wpr (28-May) : Hollywood Henderson said Bradshaw “is so dumb, he couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the C and an A.”
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Cooper stock=BUY BUY BUY
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Also notes he’s playing with more confidence.
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : @AndyHermanNFL MLF says there was a time last year where Cooper was at 220 pounds. Now he’s at 240 and still flying around.
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : And don't even get me started on Frank Caliendos "impersonations"
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I got tired of them being circle jerks with them overlaughing at each others jokes.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : It used to be must watch TV for me. now it's "meh" maybe to hear injury update
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I haven't watched the pregame shows in years and I don't feel like I've missed a thing
Zero2Cool (28-May) : Love says knee affected him all season, groin injury didn't help matters.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : I used to enjoy him on FOX Pregame. Now it's like a frat party of former Patriots.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : LaFleur on Watson: “Christian is doing outstanding. I would say he’s ahead of schedule.”
Martha Careful (28-May) : Bradshaw is a dumb ass cracker. I am so tired of his "aw shucks" diatribe. He should shrivel up and go away.
buckeyepackfan (28-May) : He wad all butt hurt because Aaron duped the media saying he was immunized.
buckeyepackfan (28-May) : Bradshaw needs to retire. He's been ripping on Rodgers ever since the covid crap. He was all hury
Zero2Cool (28-May) : Terry Bradshaw doesn't want Rodgers in Pittsburgh lol wow
Zero2Cool (27-May) : one day contract, which he also feels is pointless, but if Packers came to him, he would
packerfanoutwest (27-May) : Aaron Rodgers talks possibility of retiring with Packers, just another rumor
dfosterf (27-May) : Go watch 2001
Zero2Cool (26-May) : 1984
dfosterf (26-May) : That movie sent a chill through many. 1968.
dfosterf (26-May) : "Open the pod bay doors, HAL"
buckeyepackfan (25-May) : Haven't we all seen thus movie? It doesn't end well!! Lol
Zero2Cool (25-May) : lol Anthropic’s new AI model turns to blackmail when engineers try to take it offline
dfosterf (25-May) : Claude Opus 4
dfosterf (25-May) : AI system resorts to blackmail when its developers threaten to take it offline
beast (22-May) : Colts Owner Jim Irsay has passed away
Zero2Cool (21-May) : Well, emailing should work now. After not working for almost a year. Oops.
Zero2Cool (21-May) : Brotherly Shove did not get enough votes.
Zero2Cool (20-May) : lol our email hasn't worked in months. 7 pages of unverified users
Zero2Cool (20-May) : MySpace Screaming Lord Byron ... Brett Favre.
Zero2Cool (19-May) : Packers have signed first-round pick Matthew Golden, leaving second-round tackle Anthony Belton as their only unsigned draft pick
beast (19-May) : Supposedly he has to take his image, and name off of it... but otherwise could keep selling wine if he wanted to.
Zero2Cool (19-May) : he giving up his win business?
beast (19-May) : Speaking of Woodson, sounds like he'll be a minority owner (0.1%) of the Browns
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Zero, regarding Woodson, that'd why I find the timing with Williams peculiar
dfosterf (15-May) : Ryan Hall y'all does a great job of tracking thesr
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Fear not!! I planned to do 33mi bike ride tomorrow morning, so ... yeah
Zero2Cool (15-May) : We got some dark clouds and nasty winds right bout now.
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Madison they had hail 4pm.
dfosterf (15-May) : Sure looks like these tornadoes are headed towards Green Bay
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Woodson of Charles fame was reluctant and then loved it. that didn't really come out until post career
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : IE "We bought into the Bears and they let us down, we have no choice to seek alternatives"
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Or that Williams and his family are preparing an exit ramp if they don't like how things are going in a few years
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

27-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

27-May / Random Babble / Martha Careful

24-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

21-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

21-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

20-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

19-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

19-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.