Zero2Cool
2 years ago

UserPostedImage
Rachael from Cary, IL

My great uncle was Cecil Isbell and he held several records that lasted for decades. I always wondered why his number wasn't retired like Don Hutson's?

Longevity was the biggest difference between Isbell and Hutson. As good as your uncle was, he played only five years. Hutson played 11 seasons. And their team records reflected the difference when Hutson's number was retired by the Packers in 1951. Hutson held 20 and Isbell, nine, not counting the record they shared for shortest touchdown pass, four inches, that was later expunged from the record books.

To be honest, I don't think your uncle's number (17) should be retired by the Packers over several other great players from the Curly Lambeau and Vince Lombardi eras. He just had too short a career.

That said, one could build a case for voting your uncle into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, now that Terrell Davis and Tony Boselli have been inducted in the past seven years based on careers that were essentially built over only four and five seasons, respectively. Previously, the standard-bearers for a short career were Ernie Nevers and Gale Sayers, who each enjoyed five brilliant ones. And, clearly, that was a much higher standard than what it is now.

While I don't believe that Isbell was as deserving of Hall of Fame recognition as Nevers and Sayers, I do think he has better credentials than Davis and Boselli. Here's my reasoning: Isbell's career unfolded almost simultaneously with Sammy Baugh's and was statistically more impressive. In turn, when the NFL enlisted what it called "a panel of experts" to choose the 100 greatest players of all time in 2011, Baugh ranked 14th.

Here's the Baugh-Isbell statistical comparison through Isbell's final season. Isbell played from 1938-42, whereas Baugh's first season was 1937. Baugh was a tailback in a single-wing offense; Isbell played left halfback in a Notre Dame Box.

In 1942, Isbell became the first player in NFL history to surpass 2,000 yards passing in a single season. His 2,021 yards were almost 500 more than Baugh had thrown for in his best season. Isbell also owned the NFL record for most touchdown passes in a career with 59. Baugh was second with 56, despite playing in eight more games.

Isbell's 24 touchdown passes in 1942 also were a league record – Baugh ranked second that year with a career-high 16 – as was his 23-game streak for throwing at least one TD pass. That streak stood as the NFL record until 1958 when Johnny Unitas broke it. It stood as the Packers' record until Brett Favre surpassed it in 2003.

When it came to all-pro recognition, Isbell also bettered Baugh by a razor-thin margin. Baugh was a consensus all-pro as a rookie in 1937. Over the next five seasons, he and Isbell each made eight all-pro teams; Isbell was second team on 11 compared to Baugh's nine.

As a qualifier, here, I want to make it clear that I consider Verne Lewellen the most deserving Packer not in the Hall of Fame. He dominated the league in the 1920s and early '30s like few other players in the history of the game.

In the case of Isbell, it's not as clearcut. When he played there was hot debate over whom was better: Isbell, Baugh or the Bears' T-formation quarterback Sid Luckman. There was disagreement as to whether Isbell or his predecessor, Arnie Herber, was the better passer. There also were those who posed the question: Did Hutson make Isbell or did Isbell make Hutson?

Hutson claimed Isbell was the best of the bunch. "Isbell really got the ball out in front of you all the time," Hutson said in 1943. "His ability to lead his receiver was remarkable."

Joe Williams, one of the most well-connected sportswriters of his time, wrote a column six days a week for 34 years for The New York World-Telegram & The Sun, as well as its predecessors. In 1942, when Isbell was having his best season, Williams interviewed New York Giants all-time great Mel Hein, who played from 1931-45, on the subject and wrote an in-depth piece comparing the game's three best passers. Hein called Baugh "the one-man team" and gave him the edge over Isbell and Luckman. Hein said Isbell threw better on the move and a better deep ball, but that he benefited greatly from Hutson, whereas Baugh "can pass to anybody."

Offering yet a third opinion in 1945, Philadelphia's future Hall of Fame coach Greasy Neale told legendary sportswriter Grantland Rice that he'd take Luckman over Baugh and Hutson combined.

For a Green Bay Packers Yearbook story in 2008, I interviewed the late Bob Carroll, widely respected pro football historian and founder of the Pro Football Researchers Association, on Isbell's Hall of Fame credentials, and he wasn't sold on him. "(Isbell) played only five years and of those five, only two were very outstanding and they were war years," Carroll told me.

However, when one goes back now and researches newspapers in NFL cities from Isbell's first two, three years and what coaches and players had to say about him – something Carroll only had limited access to at the time – it leaves a far different impression. What Carroll didn't seem to realize was that Isbell had as big of an impact as a runner when he first broke into the league and was sharing passing duties with Herber.

Once described by the Green Bay Press-Gazette as a "do-everything" halfback, as well as a "swivel-hipped" runner, Isbell finished fifth in the NFL in passing but also fourth in rushing with a league-best 5.2 average as a rookie. His 1,104 total yards ranked second in the league. Baugh was not a runner. While Isbell rushed for 1,122 yards over his first three seasons, Baugh gained 97 those years.

If there had been a rookie of the year award at the time, Isbell almost certainly would have won it, especially after outplaying Pittsburgh's first choice in the 1938 draft and the league's leading rusher that season, Whizzer White, in a late October, 20-0 Packers victory. Isbell passed for 101 yards and rushed for 96 yards, including a 37-yard touchdown, while averaging 7.6 per carry. White rushed for 72 yards with a 4.2 average and passed for 74 with four interceptions.

Here's what I find particularly interesting about Isbell's rookie season. With all of Hutson's talk over the years about getting two checks because he was getting paid more than his teammates, he made less than Isbell the following season.

A little more than six weeks after the 1938 season ended, Curly Lambeau visited Isbell in Houston, Texas, and signed one of his best friends, end Frank Steen, during his stop. Isbell then went back to school at Purdue to work on his degree and didn't officially sign his contract until practice started in August, but he was awarded with the highest salary on the team.

Based on the salaries included with the Packers' 1939 audited federal tax return, Isbell, as a second-year player, was paid a salary of $7,100 in 1939 (see salary list on the graphic at the start of this post). Hutson, who was entering his fifth season, was paid a salary of $5,075. Fullback Clarke Hinkle, who was in his eighth year, had the second highest salary on the team at $5,110.

One-year contracts were the norm then, and Isbell was still making more than Hutson in his final season. Salaries included with the Packers' 1942 audited return showed that Isbell made $8,025 and Hutson, $7,525.


Continue Reading @ Packers 

Packers wrote:



If you say any WR was better than Don Hutson, you are wrong, you are fired and you also fried.

I have spoken.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (3h) : (Context: he wants his defense to create turnovers)
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Giants DC Shane Bowen tells players to “be a damn pirate."
dfosterf (6-Jun) : Semper fi !
Cheesey (6-Jun) : This is why I have so much respect for those that have gone through battles
Cheesey (6-Jun) : I can't even imagine what that would have been like
wpr (6-Jun) : "Come on, you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever?"
wpr (6-Jun) : Facing a line of machine guns 2 time medal of Honor recipient, First Sergeant Dan Daly told his men,
wpr (6-Jun) : Another detachment went into the Belleau Wood.
wpr (6-Jun) : On the 6th the Marines took Hill 142 but suffered terrible losses.
wpr (6-Jun) : It’s time to remember dfoster’s Marine brothers in Belleau Wood. The battle went on from June 1-26. Nearly 10,000 casualties.
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett have signed with the PACK
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : he won't be wearing #12, maybe he will wear number two
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : He will fail this season, should have retired
Mucky Tundra (5-Jun) : Thus the cycle of Hall of Fame Packer QBs going to the Jets and then the Vikings is broken
bboystyle (5-Jun) : Rodgers to steelers on 1 year contract
Zero2Cool (5-Jun) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.
Martha Careful (5-Jun) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
dfosterf (4-Jun) : We old Martha.
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : *front four
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome
dfosterf (4-Jun) : *directions*
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Just don't ask him for driving direct
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Probably his toe. Pretty much a great center. Toe injuries are brutal to bigen
Mucky Tundra (2-Jun) : Lions All-Pro C Frank Ragnow retires
wpr (30-May) : It's all good.
beast (30-May) : Yeah, and I enjoyed your comments and just attempted to add to it. Sorry if I did it incorrectly.
wpr (30-May) : Beast I never said Henderson was the salt of the earth. Nor even that he was correct. Just quoting the guy.
Zero2Cool (29-May) : What did you do??
Zero2Cool (29-May) : Whoa
beast (29-May) : OMG the website is now all white, even some white on white text
beast (29-May) : Henderson, who admits to taking cocaine during the Super Bowl against the Steelers, might dislike Bradshaw as he lost two Superbowls to him
wpr (28-May) : Hollywood Henderson said Bradshaw “is so dumb, he couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the C and an A.”
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Cooper stock=BUY BUY BUY
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Also notes he’s playing with more confidence.
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : @AndyHermanNFL MLF says there was a time last year where Cooper was at 220 pounds. Now he’s at 240 and still flying around.
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : And don't even get me started on Frank Caliendos "impersonations"
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I got tired of them being circle jerks with them overlaughing at each others jokes.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : It used to be must watch TV for me. now it's "meh" maybe to hear injury update
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I haven't watched the pregame shows in years and I don't feel like I've missed a thing
Zero2Cool (28-May) : Love says knee affected him all season, groin injury didn't help matters.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

6-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

27-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

27-May / Random Babble / Martha Careful

24-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

21-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.