Zero2Cool
a year ago

UserPostedImage
Rachael from Cary, IL

My great uncle was Cecil Isbell and he held several records that lasted for decades. I always wondered why his number wasn't retired like Don Hutson's?

Longevity was the biggest difference between Isbell and Hutson. As good as your uncle was, he played only five years. Hutson played 11 seasons. And their team records reflected the difference when Hutson's number was retired by the Packers in 1951. Hutson held 20 and Isbell, nine, not counting the record they shared for shortest touchdown pass, four inches, that was later expunged from the record books.

To be honest, I don't think your uncle's number (17) should be retired by the Packers over several other great players from the Curly Lambeau and Vince Lombardi eras. He just had too short a career.

That said, one could build a case for voting your uncle into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, now that Terrell Davis and Tony Boselli have been inducted in the past seven years based on careers that were essentially built over only four and five seasons, respectively. Previously, the standard-bearers for a short career were Ernie Nevers and Gale Sayers, who each enjoyed five brilliant ones. And, clearly, that was a much higher standard than what it is now.

While I don't believe that Isbell was as deserving of Hall of Fame recognition as Nevers and Sayers, I do think he has better credentials than Davis and Boselli. Here's my reasoning: Isbell's career unfolded almost simultaneously with Sammy Baugh's and was statistically more impressive. In turn, when the NFL enlisted what it called "a panel of experts" to choose the 100 greatest players of all time in 2011, Baugh ranked 14th.

Here's the Baugh-Isbell statistical comparison through Isbell's final season. Isbell played from 1938-42, whereas Baugh's first season was 1937. Baugh was a tailback in a single-wing offense; Isbell played left halfback in a Notre Dame Box.

In 1942, Isbell became the first player in NFL history to surpass 2,000 yards passing in a single season. His 2,021 yards were almost 500 more than Baugh had thrown for in his best season. Isbell also owned the NFL record for most touchdown passes in a career with 59. Baugh was second with 56, despite playing in eight more games.

Isbell's 24 touchdown passes in 1942 also were a league record – Baugh ranked second that year with a career-high 16 – as was his 23-game streak for throwing at least one TD pass. That streak stood as the NFL record until 1958 when Johnny Unitas broke it. It stood as the Packers' record until Brett Favre surpassed it in 2003.

When it came to all-pro recognition, Isbell also bettered Baugh by a razor-thin margin. Baugh was a consensus all-pro as a rookie in 1937. Over the next five seasons, he and Isbell each made eight all-pro teams; Isbell was second team on 11 compared to Baugh's nine.

As a qualifier, here, I want to make it clear that I consider Verne Lewellen the most deserving Packer not in the Hall of Fame. He dominated the league in the 1920s and early '30s like few other players in the history of the game.

In the case of Isbell, it's not as clearcut. When he played there was hot debate over whom was better: Isbell, Baugh or the Bears' T-formation quarterback Sid Luckman. There was disagreement as to whether Isbell or his predecessor, Arnie Herber, was the better passer. There also were those who posed the question: Did Hutson make Isbell or did Isbell make Hutson?

Hutson claimed Isbell was the best of the bunch. "Isbell really got the ball out in front of you all the time," Hutson said in 1943. "His ability to lead his receiver was remarkable."

Joe Williams, one of the most well-connected sportswriters of his time, wrote a column six days a week for 34 years for The New York World-Telegram & The Sun, as well as its predecessors. In 1942, when Isbell was having his best season, Williams interviewed New York Giants all-time great Mel Hein, who played from 1931-45, on the subject and wrote an in-depth piece comparing the game's three best passers. Hein called Baugh "the one-man team" and gave him the edge over Isbell and Luckman. Hein said Isbell threw better on the move and a better deep ball, but that he benefited greatly from Hutson, whereas Baugh "can pass to anybody."

Offering yet a third opinion in 1945, Philadelphia's future Hall of Fame coach Greasy Neale told legendary sportswriter Grantland Rice that he'd take Luckman over Baugh and Hutson combined.

For a Green Bay Packers Yearbook story in 2008, I interviewed the late Bob Carroll, widely respected pro football historian and founder of the Pro Football Researchers Association, on Isbell's Hall of Fame credentials, and he wasn't sold on him. "(Isbell) played only five years and of those five, only two were very outstanding and they were war years," Carroll told me.

However, when one goes back now and researches newspapers in NFL cities from Isbell's first two, three years and what coaches and players had to say about him – something Carroll only had limited access to at the time – it leaves a far different impression. What Carroll didn't seem to realize was that Isbell had as big of an impact as a runner when he first broke into the league and was sharing passing duties with Herber.

Once described by the Green Bay Press-Gazette as a "do-everything" halfback, as well as a "swivel-hipped" runner, Isbell finished fifth in the NFL in passing but also fourth in rushing with a league-best 5.2 average as a rookie. His 1,104 total yards ranked second in the league. Baugh was not a runner. While Isbell rushed for 1,122 yards over his first three seasons, Baugh gained 97 those years.

If there had been a rookie of the year award at the time, Isbell almost certainly would have won it, especially after outplaying Pittsburgh's first choice in the 1938 draft and the league's leading rusher that season, Whizzer White, in a late October, 20-0 Packers victory. Isbell passed for 101 yards and rushed for 96 yards, including a 37-yard touchdown, while averaging 7.6 per carry. White rushed for 72 yards with a 4.2 average and passed for 74 with four interceptions.

Here's what I find particularly interesting about Isbell's rookie season. With all of Hutson's talk over the years about getting two checks because he was getting paid more than his teammates, he made less than Isbell the following season.

A little more than six weeks after the 1938 season ended, Curly Lambeau visited Isbell in Houston, Texas, and signed one of his best friends, end Frank Steen, during his stop. Isbell then went back to school at Purdue to work on his degree and didn't officially sign his contract until practice started in August, but he was awarded with the highest salary on the team.

Based on the salaries included with the Packers' 1939 audited federal tax return, Isbell, as a second-year player, was paid a salary of $7,100 in 1939 (see salary list on the graphic at the start of this post). Hutson, who was entering his fifth season, was paid a salary of $5,075. Fullback Clarke Hinkle, who was in his eighth year, had the second highest salary on the team at $5,110.

One-year contracts were the norm then, and Isbell was still making more than Hutson in his final season. Salaries included with the Packers' 1942 audited return showed that Isbell made $8,025 and Hutson, $7,525.


Continue Reading @ Packers 

Packers wrote:



If you say any WR was better than Don Hutson, you are wrong, you are fired and you also fried.

I have spoken.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (2h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (2h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (2h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (2h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!
wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.
beast (20-Dec) : As of tonight, 3 way tie for 2nd in Pick'em, that battle is interesting!
beast (20-Dec) : Lions vs Vikings could be the main last game as it could determine division winners or #1 vs #2 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Or if KC needs to win for the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Right now it looks like the only prime worthy games are Det-Minny and KC-Denver (if Denver can clinch a wild card spot)
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : The entirety of week 18 being listed as flex is weird
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Matt LaFleur today says unequivocally "Ted Thompson had nothing to do with the drafting of Jordan Love."
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Apparently, the editing is what pieces comments together. That Ted thing ... fake news.
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : LaFleur "opportunity that Ted Thompson thought was too good to pass up"
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Jordan Love pick was Ted Thompson's idea.
Mucky Tundra (19-Dec) : Kyle Shanahan on signing De'Vondre Campbell as a FA last offseason: “We obviously made a mistake.”
packerfanoutwest (19-Dec) : Alexander’s last season with GB
Martha Careful (18-Dec) : if I were a professional athlete, I would probably look to see who the agent is for Kirk Cousins and then use him
beast (18-Dec) : $100 million fully guaranteed Kirk Cousins gets benched for rookie
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : a lower case b
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : The real lie is how beast capitalized his name in his message while it's normally spelled with
packerfanoutwest (18-Dec) : haha that's a lie
beast (17-Dec) : Despite what lies other might tell, Beast didn't hate the Winter Warnings, it felt refreshing to Beast for some reason.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : whiteout uniforms in general are pretty lame and weak. NFL greed at it's worst
Martha Careful (17-Dec) : The Viking uniforms, the whiteout uniforms specifically absolutely suck
beast (17-Dec) : Thanks Zero2Cool, looks a lot better now
beast (17-Dec) : Seems like someone has a crush on me, can't stop talking about me
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : Should be gooder now. The forum default theme went to goofy land.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : What the hell
packerfanoutwest (17-Dec) : yeah beast hates the Winter Warning Unies
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Okay I'm glad to know it's not just something happening to me lol
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Zero, did you copy the Packers uniforms from last night and white out the board?
beast (16-Dec) : Oh crap, is the board going to the Winter Warning Uniforms too?!? It's all white on white right now!
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : WR Odell Beckham Jr is officially a free agent after clearing waivers.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Packers are 6th in sacks.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : RB David Montgomery will undergo season-ending knee surgery.
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Dan Campbell on onside kick with 12 minutes left: In hindsight, wish I didn’t do that
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : They have that whole 12th man thing so ...
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Of the times we've played there, I just can't recall hearing our fans.
wpr (16-Dec) : Well done jdlax. Well done.
wpr (16-Dec) : I think more likely to be Pack fans that live in the area.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23h / Green Bay Packers Talk / packerfanoutwest

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

19-Dec / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

17-Dec / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Dec / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Mucky Tundra

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.