buckeyepackfan
a year ago



If you have been keeping up with mock drafts in the lead-up to the 2023 NFL Draft, which is a mere six days away as of publication, tight end has been one of the more popular positions that draft analysts have mocked for the Green Bay Packers with their first-round selection. In fact, ESPN’s Mel Kiper mocked tight end Dalton Kincaid to the Packers in the site’s latest mock draft that was published earlier this week. If I have said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times: Green Bay has plenty of needs to be addressed, with the tight end position being one of them. Thus, should the Packers spend their first-round selection on that position? History says not so fast, my friend.  

From 1986 until 2010, 28 tight ends were selected in the first round. Only four earned All-Pro honors, or 14.3% of those players. That is the second-worst percentage among every position in the NFL, according to Bleacher Report research. From 2013 until 2021 – no tight ends were selected in the first round in 2011, 2012, or 2022 – nine tight ends were selected in the first round. Not a single player earned All-Pro honors. Thus, over a 35-year window, only four tight ends drafted in the first round have earned All-Pro honors.

Plus, among those nine tight ends, only two remain on the team that drafted them – David Njoku (drafted by the Cleveland Browns in 2017) and Kyle Pitts (drafted by the Atlanta Falcons in 2021). And only two, Tyler Eifert (drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals in 2013 and played seven seasons with the team) and Njoku, received at least a second contract with the team that drafted them. That number would obviously increase to three if the Falcons reward Pitts with a second contract. 

There's a mountain of evidence that teams should not be drafting RBs in the first round (and probably beyond that as well) and I think it's pretty much a closed case at this point.

Hot take that I 70% believe: it's an even worse idea to draft a TE in the first round

— Computer Cowboy (@benbbaldwin) April 14, 2023 
The reasons for this:
(a) TEs take forever to develop so often times another team will reap the benefit
(b) We're **horrible** at predicting which TEs end up being good

— Computer Cowboy (@benbbaldwin) April 14, 2023 


Playing around with some position-specific draft curves inspired by @KevinCole___  and not only has TE had low surplus value at the top of the draft, but also the highest (!) in the 3rd round (some of this is Travis Kelce, Jonnu Smith, Mark Andrews, etc) pic.twitter.com/TtLkiGoIgs 

— Computer Cowboy (@benbbaldwin) April 14, 2023 
The general consensus is that the top-three tight ends in the league are Travis Kelce, George Kittle, and Mark Andrews. None of them were picked in the first round. Other current notable tight ends not drafted in the first round include Darren Waller, Dallas Goedert, Zach Ertz, Pat Freiermuth, Dalton Schultz, and Cole Kmet. 

In terms of historical context, what do Rob Gronkowski, Jason Witten, Antonio Gates, Shannon Sharpe, and Jimmy Graham all have in common? They each sit in the top ten for most all-time receiving yards among tight ends and were not drafted in the first round. In fact, the average draft slot for every single player in the top-ten list was 88th overall, according to 33rd Team. 

Let's look at overall production. How many first-round tight ends have ranked in the top five in terms of receptions, receiving yards, and touchdowns among tight ends in each of the last five seasons? 

2018 Receptions: 0 
Receiving yards: 1 (Ebron, 5th)
Touchdowns: 1 (Ebron, 1st)
2019 Receptions: 0Receiving yards: 0
Touchdowns: 0
2020 Receptions: 2 (Hockenson, 4th; Engram, 5th)
Receiving yards: 1 (Hockenson, 3rd)
Touchdowns 2
 2021Receptions: 0 Receiving yards: 1 (Pitts, 3rd)
Touchdowns: 0
2022 Receptions: 2 (Hockenson, 2nd; Engram, t3rd)
Receiving yards: 2 (Hockenson, 2nd; Engram, 4th)
Touchdowns: 1 (Hockenson, 5th)

The depth of this year’s tight end class  is another reason why teams that need a tight end, including the Packers, should shy away from selecting one in the first round. Put another way, the return on investment is likely to be better after the first round. The Athletic's Dane Brugler has eight tight ends on his latest top 100 draft board ; ESPN's Jordan Reid has seven tight ends in the top 100  of his prospect list; and CHTV's Joseph Randolph has six tight ends on his top 150 draft board 

Altogether, the evidence is clear that teams should draft a tight end in the first round at their own risk. We will find out soon enough if Brian Gutekunst plays with fire. 
 

Continue Reading @ CheeseheadTV 

CheeseheadTV wrote:


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nerdmann
a year ago
Get Mayer and Washington. They can both block as rookies, and Mayer can run a basic route tree. 👍

Some of these lower ranked players have comparable skills sets though. Plan do get passcatchers first, then go edge, but be ready to see how the board falls. 
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
a year ago
It does seems like it is harder to predict which TE will pan out and the professional scouts struggle with the TE position more than others.

So a position to maybe grab more quantity than quality at most years. Though, I think one of the top 3 this year may be best.
UserPostedImage
a year ago
My conjecture is that you could make the same case for any position.

The argument might go like this...
Tom Brady was taken in the 7th round, so maybe we should always wait till the 7th to draft quarterbacks.  Look at all the first round failures:

  • JaMarcus Russell
  • Joey Harrington
  • Ryan Leaf
  • Rick Mirer
  • Matt Lienart
  • Brandon Weeden
  • Tim Tebow
  • Brady Quinn
  • J.P Losman
  • Christian Ponder
  • Vince Young
  • Blake Bortles
  • Jack Thompson
  • Mike Phipps

Why would you ever take a QB in the first round. 

​​​​​​​Instead let's trade down and plug in a slug, wait three years for him to develop, then repeat.

Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

My conjecture is that you could make the same case for any position.

The argument might go like this...
Tom Brady was taken in the 7th round, so maybe we should always wait till the 7th to draft quarterbacks.  Look at all the first round failures:

  • JaMarcus Russell
  • Joey Harrington
  • Ryan Leaf
  • Rick Mirer
  • Matt Lienart
  • Brandon Weeden
  • Tim Tebow
  • Brady Quinn
  • J.P Losman
  • Christian Ponder
  • Vince Young
  • Blake Bortles
  • Jack Thompson
  • Mike Phipps

Why would you ever take a QB in the first round. 

Instead let's trade down and plug in a slug, wait three years for him to develop, then repeat.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



​​​​​​​The difference being there are been a lot of successful QBs in the 1st round too... But it's harder to say that about TE than other positions 
UserPostedImage
a year ago

The difference being there are been a lot of successful QBs in the 1st round too... But it's harder to say that about TE than other positions 

Originally Posted by: beast 

Perhaps.

But there are also alot more QB's taken in the first round and the law of averages will at some point revert to the mean.

Where need meet availability, draft the best available  I agree with Nerdmann: 

Get Mayer and Washington. 


Go Packers!!!!
earthquake
a year ago
I don't know a whole lot about the draft class this year but I think 15 is too high for a TE unless you're sure the kid is a generational type of talent.

I would prefer LT, Edge, WR, CB, or DT (in that order) at 15. Or trade back to the early 20s for a WR, S, TE or RT/interior OL.

Let's hope 4 QBs and 1 RB go in the top 14 picks, then they might be looking at getting a top 10-ish player at 15.
blank
beast
a year ago

the law of averages will at some point revert to the mean.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


Absolutely excellent point!

As for taking the blocking TEs, I absolutely love TE Washington raw potential and have said Gute will be drooling over that potential. 

But if guys are mentally willing to be physical, you can teach TEs to block (and most college TEs aren't trained much as blockers these days meaning they have a lot of room for improvement), where it's the ones that can be receiving threats (which is less teachable) that are more likely to become great.


That being said, I think I'd love grabbing two of the top three TEs this year (in no order, Mayer, Washington and Kincaid), but not sure any of them will fall to #45.

But Kincaid (assuming his back doesn't have more issues) is the best receiver of the group. Mayer is the blocking guy that can also be average receiving.

Washington has all the potential in the world but is extremely raw, and while he's known for his blocking, he mainly just does that by the I'm much bigger than you, on the college level, where he needs much better technic in the pros but he's the boom or bust.guy, that could seriously boom if he develops. But does he develop?
UserPostedImage
beast
a year ago

I don't know a whole lot about the draft class this year but I think 15 is too high for a TE unless you're sure the kid is a generational type of talent.

I would prefer LT, Edge, WR, CB, or DT (in that order) at 15. Or trade back to the early 20s for a WR, S, TE or RT/interior OL.

Let's hope 4 QBs and 1 RB go in the top 14 picks, then they might be looking at getting a top 10-ish player at 15.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 


I'm not sure that he is, but some seem to think Kincaid can be an elite TE/WR tweener. If you fully develop Washington, can absolutely can be a generation talent, but you have zero proof that he'll fully develop all that potential, especially since he's under developed where you would hope he is currently, though that's partly because the coaches wanted him for a specific blocking role and didn't ask him to do more (or there was another TE they had better suited for that other role and some suggest that other TE might be a top 5 or top 10 pick next year).

As for this year's 1st round draft class, I'd change up the order a bit.

Edge, OT, CB as the top three in that order. Then DT, TE and the one S. following that, in no real order.

Some interesting WRs, but I don't think there is one you can absolutely promise won't be a bust. Though JSN has great amazing quickness, if you're willing to draft a slot WR I'm the first round and only had one year of college success (but what an absolutely amazing year it was) and the TCU WR has tons of physical potential, but he's a large WR that doesn't play like a like a large WR, he'll need to mentally change that in the pros but tons of physical potential if he can change the mentality a bit.
UserPostedImage
a year ago
IIRC, we historically stay away from guys with back issues. Which is why I don’t think Kincaid is on the radar unless he falls to thor fourth round.

That’s why I think you have to take Mayer with your first pick, then, either a tackle or the kid from Georgia with your next pick.

 
Go Packers!!!!
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