beast
5 years ago

The price for Brown would be too high.

Adams and the return of Allison will leave one "slot" for a WR. I'll bet that will not be a problem for one or more 2nd yr WRs.

Originally Posted by: Smokey 


The price for Brown very well could be too high, but this also highlights part of the reason the Packers struggled last season, because they didn't have a #2 WR, and we're currently penciling in a guy that hasn't averaged 255 yards per season as a starter... those he did get 303 yards in 5 games (average of 970 yards over a 16 game period).

I think this shows the Packers should also be looking at potential options to upgrade their WRs too and not hoping they develop...

Also this is if Gute puts a tender on Allison as I believe he's an RFA this season, I'm thinking they will, but Gute also didn't tender some th a t I thought they would last season.

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Zero2Cool
5 years ago

I read somewhere that he has a 21 million cap hit next year and 22 million the next

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



I believe if they trade him after June 1st, it's more than half of the $21 million that will be dead. I thought it was $7.35 million, but cannot remember where I heard it from. It was someone on NFL Network I think.


Actually, here's the numbers.
Dead money $7,040,000
Savings $15,125,000

https://overthecap.com/player/antonio-brown/1579/ 
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Rockmolder
5 years ago

Not interested.

He's 30. More than likely his best years are gone. In general his best years were 13-17. I think his production will decline over the next 4 years of his contract but his salary won't.

He is getting $17 mil a year. He's the second highest paid WR (barring future deals) for the next 4 years. He was #9 in receptions and #11 in yards #3 in targets and #1 in TDs. You can't tell me that GB can't draft a WR who will put up good numbers for a fraction of the cost.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



This is my biggest problem, as well. You're investing a lot of money in a guy who's most likely on the decline, already. That said, he does show the kind of awareness and ability on the field that makes you think you could get another 4 years of really good production out of him. Next to that, an AB at 80% is still better than anyone we've had on the field since 2004 Javon Walker. I'm on the fence about this one. It's a big gamble.

For the record, Adams was #2 in targets and TDs. If Brown was on the team both Adams and Browns numbers would drop.



I'd hope so. One of our biggest problems is that there's no viable starting WR next to Adams. I'd like for his targets to drop a bit. I don't know if Browns' numbers would take a big hit. He's already playing next to Smith-Schuster who caught 111 passes this year.

I seriously doubt Pitt would want anything less than a #1 pick for him. I want GB's #1 pick to last at least 7 years.



I agree if you're talking about the nr. 12 pick. The number 28-32 pick, I don't know. At that point you're getting into territory where you're not drafting the true top guys anymore. I know it's not a very good metric, but just to illustrate... Between '08 and '16, there've been 44 selections in that range, of which just 9 made the Pro Bowl. Again, not a great metric, but the chance you're drafting a Derek Sherrod, Kelvin Benjamin or a Beanie Wells is so much bigger than hitting on a guy like Eric Wood or Cameron Heyward.

Not taking the contract into account and looking at our current situation... I'd rather have 4 years of AB than taking a chance on a guy like Parris Campbell. AB would be ready to play immediately, something first year receivers usually can't do. Also, you're in a bit of a win now mode, with Rodgers most likely not having a lot more than 4 years of good play left.

Like most, though, I'm stuck on that contract. I don't see how you can make this big an investment in one 30 year old receiver, while you have holes at nearly every position on defense.
Zero2Cool
5 years ago
How many were All Pro? Pro Bowl is a joke, we shouldn't ever discuss it or use it in any sentence ever. All Pro is where it's at folks!
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Rockmolder
5 years ago

The price for Brown very well could be too high, but this also highlights part of the reason the Packers struggled last season, because they didn't have a #2 WR, and we're currently penciling in a guy that hasn't averaged 255 yards per season as a starter... those he did get 303 yards in 5 games (average of 970 yards over a 16 game period).

I think this shows the Packers should also be looking at potential options to upgrade their WRs too and not hoping they develop...

Also this is if Gute puts a tender on Allison as I believe he's an RFA this season, I'm thinking they will, but Gute also didn't tender some th a t I thought they would last season.

Originally Posted by: beast 



I fully agree. It's been this way for way too long. As much as we've been harping on McCarthy for his outdated schemes, Rodgers for holding the ball too long and (inexplicably), the o-line, our receiving group shoulders as much of the blame, if not more.

The best example of this, for me, is James Jones. He couldn't even make a roster one year after leaving us, only to return and get nearly a 1.000 yards in a season. There's been way too little effort to give Rodgers the weapons he needs, just because he's good enough without them.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
5 years ago

This is my biggest problem, as well. You're investing a lot of money in a guy who's most likely on the decline, already. That said, he does show the kind of awareness and ability on the field that makes you think you could get another 4 years of really good production out of him. Next to that, an AB at 80% is still better than anyone we've had on the field since 2004 Javon Walker. I'm on the fence about this one. It's a big gamble.



I'd hope so. One of our biggest problems is that there's no viable starting WR next to Adams. I'd like for his targets to drop a bit. I don't know if Browns' numbers would take a big hit. He's already playing next to Smith-Schuster who caught 111 passes this year.



I agree if you're talking about the nr. 12 pick. The number 28-32 pick, I don't know. At that point you're getting into territory where you're not drafting the true top guys anymore. I know it's not a very good metric, but just to illustrate... Between '08 and '16, there've been 44 selections in that range, of which just 9 made the Pro Bowl. Again, not a great metric, but the chance you're drafting a Derek Sherrod, Kelvin Benjamin or a Beanie Wells is so much bigger than hitting on a guy like Eric Wood or Cameron Heyward.

Not taking the contract into account and looking at our current situation... I'd rather have 4 years of AB than taking a chance on a guy like Parris Campbell. AB would be ready to play immediately, something first year receivers usually can't do. Also, you're in a bit of a win now mode, with Rodgers most likely not having a lot more than 4 years of good play left.

Like most, though, I'm stuck on that contract. I don't see how you can make this big an investment in one 30 year old receiver, while you have holes at nearly every position on defense.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



One of the many reasons I would never make a good GM. It's too easy for me to see the potential negatives in a deal. I struggle to accept the benefits for our team are real.

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sschind
5 years ago
Our receiving corps was once the best in the NFL and not too long ago at that. It has been going downhill steadily for a while now. Trying to replace proven veterans with late round potential hasn't been very effective. Whether it is because Ted bought into the WR guru label many fans bestowed on him (mistakenly IMO) or the idea Aaron Rodgers could make any WR into a good one the fact is in the last 20 years we have only had 1 decent WR who wasn't drafted in the 3rd round or higher. Every now and the we drafted a WR on day 2 and in other years try to support him with day three projects who have not panned out.

IMO its time to spend another early pick on a WR or bring in another via FA to complement Adams. Unfortunately I don't think there are many FAs who would really fit the bill. Antonio Brown would be expensive but for what run of the mill #2 WRs have been signing for in recent years he just might be worth it.

I know some people don't like the idea of spending a high pick on a WR because they point to guys like Driver and Brown himself and say "see, its a waste of a pick to take a WR high because you can get guys like this in the 6th and 7th rounds" Yes you can but you had better plan on drafting a bunch of them because the vast majority will flop.

If we bring in Brown I doubt either he nor Adams would lead the league in any passing categories (maybe average) simply because the targets would be split up but I could easily see both of them hovering around the middle of the top 10 and I would take that in a heartbeat.

Brown would certainly be worth the #32 pick IMO. I even think his salary could be justified. Still I'm not convinced. I'm a bit like WPR in that his age and the fact that in the first year he was overshadowed by a fellow WR he seemed to throw a fit throws up red flags.

I'm going to treat this like I did the Mack thing. Overall I would say I am opposed but I certainly see the advantages of bringing him in and if we do I'm not going to be upset about it.

One thing I feel for certain is that we need help art WR. Allison is a wild card but he is still unproven. Super Jake and the wonder triplets will probably produce 1 above average and 1 average WR at best between the 4 of them and I am not sure I have seen anything from any of them to make me think any of them will be that full time #2 guy.
Porforis
5 years ago

Our receiving corps was once the best in the NFL and not too long ago at that. It has been going downhill steadily for a while now. Trying to replace proven veterans with late round potential hasn't been very effective. Whether it is because Ted bought into the WR guru label many fans bestowed on him (mistakenly IMO) or the idea Aaron Rodgers could make any WR into a good one the fact is in the last 20 years we have only had 1 decent WR who wasn't drafted in the 3rd round or higher. Every now and the we drafted a WR on day 2 and in other years try to support him with day three projects who have not panned out.

IMO its time to spend another early pick on a WR or bring in another via FA to complement Adams. Unfortunately I don't think there are many FAs who would really fit the bill. Antonio Brown would be expensive but for what run of the mill #2 WRs have been signing for in recent years he just might be worth it.

I know some people don't like the idea of spending a high pick on a WR because they point to guys like Driver and Brown himself and say "see, its a waste of a pick to take a WR high because you can get guys like this in the 6th and 7th rounds" Yes you can but you had better plan on drafting a bunch of them because the vast majority will flop.

If we bring in Brown I doubt either he nor Adams would lead the league in any passing categories (maybe average) simply because the targets would be split up but I could easily see both of them hovering around the middle of the top 10 and I would take that in a heartbeat.

Brown would certainly be worth the #32 pick IMO. I even think his salary could be justified. Still I'm not convinced. I'm a bit like WPR in that his age and the fact that in the first year he was overshadowed by a fellow WR he seemed to throw a fit throws up red flags.

I'm going to treat this like I did the Mack thing. Overall I would say I am opposed but I certainly see the advantages of bringing him in and if we do I'm not going to be upset about it.

One thing I feel for certain is that we need help art WR. Allison is a wild card but he is still unproven. Super Jake and the wonder triplets will probably produce 1 above average and 1 average WR at best between the 4 of them and I am not sure I have seen anything from any of them to make me think any of them will be that full time #2 guy.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



I think a lot of the reason why we haven't invested a high round pick in a WR is because we've been having so many issues on defense for so many years. Since 2012, we've barely spent any 1st-3rd round picks on offense because of glaring needs elsewhere.
sschind
5 years ago

I think a lot of the reason why we haven't invested a high round pick in a WR is because we've been having so many issues on defense for so many years. Since 2012, we've barely spent any 1st-3rd round picks on offense because of glaring needs elsewhere.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



That is a good point and I agree (gee didn't I just type the same thing in reply to one of your other posts) but whether they didn't choose a WR higher because they didn't think they needed to or because they didn't think the could afford to doesn't change the fact that they didn't and it has put us where we are today. One stud and a bunch of young potential. I don't care who it is or how we get him, we desperately need another WR to take the pressure off of Adams. It would be great if that guy was already on the roster because that would save the draft pick or the FA money but I'm not convinced he is.

I realize the a 1st round draft pick is also nothing but young potential juts like late round picks and that lots of them flop but in general they are 1st round picks, as opposed to day three picks, because they either have more talent, more potential or a better track record in college or they are simply perceived as a better option and I would feel much more comfortable about one of them panning out.

beast
5 years ago

Jerry Rice on Monday said Antonio Brown wants to play for the 49ers, after the two FaceTimed on Sunday.

“Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,” Rice said during an appearance on 95.7 The Game. "He wants to come here really badly."

nbcsports  wrote:



I'm not sure why Brown want to go to the 49ers... but if it's system and QB related, the LaFleur might have a system like one of his mentors in Kyle Shanahan and I think Rodgers could be considered the same level or better as Jimmy Garoppolo.

Just saying...
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beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
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beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
wpr (15-Nov) : wow. That three different things for the kid.
Zero2Cool (15-Nov) : MarShawn Lloyd has appendicitis according to Matt LaFleur.
Zero2Cool (14-Nov) : He probably plays DB.
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