Cheesey
6 years ago
I agree with beast. There is no proof that Rodgers is defying McCarthy.
As was also said in this thread, Rodgers has been carrying this team on his back for years.
He’s been injured the last several years, and has still tried to play up to his high expectations. But he hasn’t had the time in the pocket that he has had in the past, and can’t evade the D like he could before.
He has played his butt off, but he can’t do it alone anymore . He has NOT (as some claim) been just sitting back because he got his payday. Look at his reaction when Montgomery fumbled. Did AR look like a guy that didn’t care? He could have said he was too injured to play when his knee got hurt in game one. Did he do that?
NOPE. He didn’t miss even one game, or even the second half of the Bears game.
The guy needs some HELP in order to win games.

UserPostedImage
DoddPower
6 years ago

In that case we should bench literally everyone.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



Exactly. As bad as Rodgers is playing, most the rest of the team is playing even worse. Let's just bench most the team!

Rodgers isn't getting benched if reasonably healthy. That's a silly idea. Rodgers needs to play better, he's said so multiple times this season. But he also needs more help. More talent, better schemes, better defense, and better coaching. The organization has grown stale. I don't think anything will get fixed until the house is cleaned. I can't believe they didn't do that this off season. They basically wasted a season by doing so. If you're going to do that, they might as well have tanked for better draft picks.

nerdmann
6 years ago

In that case we should bench literally everyone.

For whatever reason you have this idea in your head that everyone thinks that Aaron Rodgers is perfect and any offensive issues are 0% his fault. This is completely untrue and I would challenge you to point out a single person that doesn't criticize AR.

People saying that Mike McCarthy needs to go because of offensive issues aren't saying that Aaron Rodgers holds none of the blame

People getting pissed at Montgomery aren't saying that Rodgers holds no blame for the loss as if he was playing at a high level we would have been up enough that it wouldn't have been an issue.

You have this idea in your head and literally any positive comment about Rodgers is interpreted as hero worship and any negative comment about McCarthy, WRs, TEs, RBs, or the line is seen as trying to blame anyone but Rodgers.

I'm not saying that benching Rodgers is ludicrous. I'm saying that this idea that fans, especially on this site where we generally avoid being hysterical and complete and utter homers, blindly treat Rodgers like some sort of god is somewhere between completely incorrect and utterly offensive.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



Those are all separate arguments. My main point is that Aaron is being insubordinate.

Then again if Mike is ok with that, it's just another reason to show him the door. And another reason for his ongoing failures week after week.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
6 years ago

The only good thing that could come from benching Rodgers in favor of Kizer would be that we would improve our draft position.
If that was done the Green Bay Packers would be the laughing stock of the NFL.
Don't bench Rodgers, fire McCarthy now and see what can happen in the bottom end of the season.
As it stands,Rodgers,McCarthy and our offense is a hot mess right now.
As it stands Rodgers is on track to have his lowest competition percentage rating since 2008.
I think it's time to fire the play caller now and see how the balance of the season shakes out.
As things stand the Green Bay Packers aren't going anywhere anyway.

Originally Posted by: yooperfan 



We could get rid of Mike anytime. But Aaron would just pull rank on the NEXT guy. That's my point.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
6 years ago

All that is great... but you completely and totally avoided my questions....

You claim Rodgers is openly defying the coaches....

I asked for your proof... and all you got is that he doesn't play within the system... which is absolutely nothing as far as proof of openly defying....

Do we even have the basic open proof of Mike McCarthy asking Rodgers to do what you want? I don't think we do...

So this is Rodgers openly defying YOU... not the coaches... UNLESS... are you one of the Packers coaches?

Originally Posted by: beast 



Everyone knows it. It was the first thing brought up on the postgame show this past week. It's been a topic of discussion on all the podcasts.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
6 years ago

I agree with beast. There is no proof that Rodgers is defying McCarthy.
As was also said in this thread, Rodgers has been carrying this team on his back for years.
He’s been injured the last several years, and has still tried to play up to his high expectations. But he hasn’t had the time in the pocket that he has had in the past, and can’t evade the D like he could before.
He has played his butt off, but he can’t do it alone anymore . He has NOT (as some claim) been just sitting back because he got his payday. Look at his reaction when Montgomery fumbled. Did Aaron Rodgers look like a guy that didn’t care? He could have said he was too injured to play when his knee got hurt in game one. Did he do that?
NOPE. He didn’t miss even one game, or even the second half of the Bears game.
The guy needs some HELP in order to win games.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



Aaron cares very much. About his stats and his place in the all time record books.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Nonstopdrivel
6 years ago
I highly doubt Rodgers cares much about his place in the record books. He simply got too late a start and almost certainly won't play long enough to ever make a serious run at any of the major career passing records. The only notable record he's likely to retain is career passer rating, and after this year, he might even start looking vulnerable on that front. He's likely to also finish with the best TD:INT ratio in history, but who pays attention to that?
UserPostedImage
bboystyle
6 years ago

Everyone knows it. It was the first thing brought up on the postgame show this past week. It's been a topic of discussion on all the podcasts.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Speculation doesnt mean facts. Im sure Rodgers doesnt think hes above the team and he is his biggest critic. He places the blame where it belongs when its needed. Whems hes off, he says it. When the rest of the team is off, he says it. When MM cant game plan correctly, he mentions it in a nice way. Thats why hes labled a diva because he places blame where it belongs instead of giving the same old generic BS that MM spits.

I rather have a qb like that then a yes man. Rodgers earned the right to call out the flaws of this team. Had it not been for him, we would be the Browns of the NFC.
Porforis
6 years ago

Those are all separate arguments. My main point is that Aaron is being insubordinate.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



That's definitely a conversation topic, my main issue is that you repeatedly state this as fact without strong supporting evidence to back it up. I'm not so much denying that this is the case, as I'm saying you really have no evidence of it besides some cherry picked statements by a player or coach (and ignoring all of the statements from other players and coaches to the contrary) or your own interpretation of what you think the called plays are versus what Aaron is running (as well as any knowledge of cases where Aaron has the green light to change things at the line depending on reads).

Then again if Mike is ok with that, it's just another reason to show him the door. And another reason for his ongoing failures week after week.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



If he's okay with outright insubordination, I agree with this. If he's okay with his quarterback running a different play than he called if he sees a matchup he can exploit, that's basic coaching for veteran quarterbacks. QBs do that constantly.

Everyone knows it. It was the first thing brought up on the postgame show this past week. It's been a topic of discussion on all the podcasts.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Everyone doesn't know it which is why the vast majority of people are disagreeing with you on this point.

Aaron cares very much. About his stats and his place in the all time record books.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Of course he does. Any player that spouts the "I only care about my team" nonsense that claims to not dream of putting up big numbers and ending up in the hall of fame is lying. What you MEAN to say is "Aaron cares so much about his stats that he's willing to blow games to try to pad his stats" which seems to run contrary to the whole "Caring about his stats" thing because well... Generally when QBs throw for a bunch of yards, have a high completion percentage, don't throw picks, and throw TDs their teams do well.

I don't see how the claim that Rodgers ignores people wide open 5-10 yards from the LOS because he wants to bomb it downfield, gets into trouble, and in seasons past would take sacks and this season throws the ball away stands up to the most basic scrutiny. These are actions that distinctly HURT his stats. If he was obsessed with his own stats he'd be throwing those 5-10 yard easy passes every single time because they're high completion percentage, he often has WRs gain an extra 5-10 yards after the catch, and they keep the chains moving which gives him MORE opportunities for yards and touchdowns.

So I really don't understand how that argument works either unless the claim is that the only stat Rodgers cares about is number of bombs downfield and he wants to be known as the all time great downfield bomber at the expense of all the other stats people actually care about.
bboystyle
6 years ago

That's definitely a conversation topic, my main issue is that you repeatedly state this as fact without strong supporting evidence to back it up. I'm not so much denying that this is the case, as I'm saying you really have no evidence of it besides some cherry picked statements by a player or coach (and ignoring all of the statements from other players and coaches to the contrary) or your own interpretation of what you think the called plays are versus what Aaron is running (as well as any knowledge of cases where Aaron has the green light to change things at the line depending on reads).



If he's okay with outright insubordination, I agree with this. If he's okay with his quarterback running a different play than he called if he sees a matchup he can exploit, that's basic coaching for veteran quarterbacks. QBs do that constantly.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 





There is no evidence of it. Matter of fact, greg jennings has went on record saying the opposite. He says brett favre used to defy MM when certain plays were called and they usually panned out. He said Rodgers doesnt do that and that he doesnt have much power in play calling except in the 2 min drill. Former packer players have said that MM has ran the same offense since 2011 and defenses know whats coming. Its the improvision of Rodgers after the snap that stops this offense from being a bottom unit.
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