Blank402
16 years ago
Would Tony Gonzalez have helped our offense? Yes. However, it's not our offense that needs help. The reason we're 5-6 right now isn't because we need a play making TE, and it's not because we don't have Brett Favre (despite what some of you want to think). It's because we have one of the worst run defenses in the league. It's hard to win games when you're letting teams run for over five yards a carry. Giving up a second round pick for a player we don't even need would have been idiotic. Also, as a little side note, the Jets have one of the best run defenses in the league. Just think about that.

Anyways, back on topic. I think Ted Thompson is a good GM, but he has his flaws. The one that immeadiately springs to mind is his philosophy of waiting for the young talent on the team to develop. Look at the O-line. It's shown flashes of good things, but for the most part it's been terribly inconsistent. However, instead of infusing some veteren help on the line he just drafts more young players and wait for the ones we already have to break out.

As someone else mentioned, his inability to replace players is another problem. I'm not ready to label Justin Harrell a bust just yet, but even if he played to his full potential, he still wouldn't be a proper replacement for Corey Williams. Harrell is a run stuffer, that's all he'll probably ever be. Williams gave us an inside pass rush, something Harrell can't give and something we're sorely missing right now. Also, not having someone in place to take over for KGB was stupid. He should've known that a speed guy like KGB would lose a step after undergoing knee surgery, and Jenkins has had a history with injuries, an acceptable back up for both should've been ready.

So, overall I'd say he's a little above average. He's good at drafting and even though he rarely signs free agents, the ones he does sign are usually pretty good (Woodson, Pickett, Chillar). However, he needs to take more chances in the FA market instead of sitting around and waiting for someone who's already on the team to break out.
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greenwhiteandnogold
16 years ago

No team would have looked at an unproven rookie and thrown 8 million their way without seeing him play at least 7-8 full games. Back in August he had no claim for the throne and had no real leverage, we could have gotten him even cheaper in free agency.

.

"longtimefan" wrote:



Yup no team would do that

unproven rookie 

Ryan became the second top draft choice to sign when he accepted a six-year, $72 million contract that included $34.75 million in guarantees

"IronMan" wrote:

"longtimefan" wrote:


Apples and oranges IMO. Matt Ryan was the #1 overall pick. He gets a big contract by default.

"greenwhiteandnogold" wrote:



SO?

What did he do other than play good in college??

At least Aaron Rodgers studied under Brett Favre, ran the scout team for 3 years, and knew the play book

Make more sense now?

I truly fing hate how rooks get those deals with out even looking at a NFL playbook



I agree, rookies shouldn't get big deals when they haven't even played a down in the NFL. But the Matt Ryan was the biggest rookie deal ever, certainly not the norm.

But the point I was making, was that we shouldn't assume that Rodgers was going to be a goner if we put him on the bench another year. Sure, he wouldn't have liked it, but he would have (had to) held the clipboard another year and at the end of 2008 when his existing contract is about up we could then offer him something less than 8 million/year without fear of him leaving. I don't think he would have been so petty that he would have said "NO, I was to be the starting QB and you took Brett Back, so take your 6.5 million a year and shove it... I'll go be a Lion".
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tromadz
16 years ago
Does this thread really exist? Not even gonna wait till the season is over, eh? Sad.
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Rockmolder
16 years ago

We had the T. Gonzalez trade finalized, but the Chiefs backed out on us. I think we had a round 2 draft pick for him but they backed out in the final minutes...

"porky88" wrote:



We thought Tony G for a 3rd was the deal.

The Packers had the papers made up. Carl Peterson calls up and asks for a 2nd rounder instead and the Packers back out as they aren't going to give that up.

Pretty much Thompson was wiling to part with a 3rd, but not a 2nd.

His last three 2nd round picks have been Brandon Jackson, Brian Brohm, and Pat Lee. Nothing that real special although Jackson has played his role well. We're already getting an extra 2nd at least from the Favre trade too.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



We didn't know about that 2nd rounder at that time though, the Jets didn't look that good when Favre just came there.

Don't think you can look at the last 2 years of 2nd round draft picks either. Pat Lee is still pretty rough, Jordy Nelson has even more potential than he's showing (I think) and Brian Brohm has been amazing in college... lets just hope he needs some time ot adjust.

I'm at school now so I can't look back at past drafts, but I recall him drafting pretty well in later rounds.

Maybe that's why we keep trading away these 1st rounders, I can't remember any good 1st rounder he took except for Rodgers. Guess you don't need that when you find gems like Jennings in the 2nd round.
dhpackr
16 years ago
why I hate Ted Thompson and think he should go.
1. Forcing the best football player I have ever seen in a GB Packer uniform out of GB.

2. Constantly dropping lower in the NFL draft to choose players. I feel the supposed depth on our team is mediocre at best and it shows by our special teams play and our issues at LBer when barnett was injured. Also look at Seattle, what did that team accomplish with Ted Thompson at the helm.

3.Not hiring Sean Payton

4. not drafting Greg Olsen over Justin Harrell

5. Letting Mike Wahle out off GB

6. Not getting Randy Moss into a Packer uniform

7. Not getting Tony Gonzales in a Packer uniform.

8. Giving an unproven QB a ridiculous amount of money.

I feel Ted Thompson is a terrible evaluator of talent and will return the Packers to the losing ways of guys like Dan Devine.
Ted Thompson will be gone by 2010, and will always be remembered as the guy that ran Brett Favre out of GB.
So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
dfosterf
16 years ago

I think with what he has had to work with he's done a decent job. Although I think his evaluation on OL is terrible and I also think he needs to take a risk every now and then. I think ted kind of waits for things to fall into his lap instead of reaching out and getting it at times.

I'm actually more concerned with McCarthy than Thompson.

"dhazer" wrote:



The last part there Zero got me thinking and looking back, Maybe we all pointed the offseason circus at Brett vs. Ted Thompson maybe it was Mike McCarthy pulling the strings and Ted Thompson is just the puppet. We never did hear from Ted Thompson but it was always Mike McCarthy saying the train left blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong i still don't think Ted Thompson is that great of a GM but maybe Mike McCarthy is trying to make it his team and have his stamp on it. I still don't like the fact you never see Ted Thompson with anything on that has the Packer logo on it.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I will be damned and go straight to (do NOT pass go) hell... I actually agree with at least part of a Dhazer post. Of course you are mostly wrong about WHICH PART of the team MM had the most influence upon. It would be the offensive line. As an expert revisionist, while a simultaneous context-puller, you above all others would be the most likely candidate for having found evidence that MM heavily influenced Ted Thompson as regards the personnel decisions on that offensive line. Unfortunately, your Anti-Ted/Aaron Rodgers agenda would have caused you to slide right over the evidence as regards the o-line, because you have bigger rhetorical fish to fry. So, +1 for the basic thesis, -1 for the puppet allusion, and another -1 for the Packer logo MIA concept. So, Dave, we have a net minus one for you, which really isn't that bad when you think about it coming from me, because as you know, I have some opinions, too. :pottytrain2:
longtimefan
16 years ago

Also look at Seattle, what did that team accomplish with Ted Thompson at the helm.

"dhpackr" wrote:



I researched this a while back and posted it on another forum


Note how many 2nd 3rd, up to 7th round draft choices he brought in helped the team... ..They made playoffs in 88, then didn't go again until 99...2003 10-6 and playoffs, 2004 9-7 and playoffs...They will make the playoffs this year too...With more then a handful of players he brought in...


Overseeing Seattle's draft board from 2000 through '04, Thompson selected players that accounted for 51.7 percent of the Seahawks' starts in 2004, when the 9-7 club captured the NFC West championship.

Furthermore, after his five Seattle drafts, 30 of 47 selected players have started at least one Seahawks game, and only three of those 47 did not make Seattle's 53-man roster. And, 31 remained on the roster at the end of the '04 campaign.

Overall, eight of those players have earned all-rookie, All-Pro or Pro Bowl honors.

8 out of 47 players made all pro or all rookie...Tell me that isnt a nice stat??

The Seahawks advanced to the playoffs each of the past two seasons with many players Thompson acquired through the draft, including 11 of 22 starters in the team's 2004 first-round game.

RB Shaun Alexander (first round, 19th overall, 2000). Thompson's first selection, now a two-time Pro Bowler; supplanted established starter Ricky Watters and over the last two seasons (2003-04) leads the league in rushing yards (3,131), helping Seattle to the NFC's fourth-best record in that span. Fell 1 yard shy of 2004 NFL rushing title.


WR Alex Bannister (fifth round, 140th overall, 2002). Pro Bowl selection as special teams player in 2003.


K Josh Brown (seventh round, 222nd overall, 2003). Nailed 45 of first 55 NFL field-goal attempts (81.8 percent), including an NFC-best 92.0 percent (23 of 25) in 2004.


G Steve Hutchinson (first round, 17th overall, 2001). Two-time Pro Bowl selection. Started first 20 games before breaking leg in 2002. Started all 32 contests since his return, garnering first-team All-Pro honors from the Associated Press in 2003.


WR Darrell Jackson (third round, 80th overall, 2000). All-rookie selection, has started 61 of 80 Seahawks games in five years. Posted franchise-record 87 receptions in 2004.


DT Rashad Moore (sixth round, 183rd overall, 2003). In two years, has arguably outplayed 16 of the 18 tackles taken ahead of him, including first-round picks Johnathan Sullivan and Jimmy Kennedy.


The Seahawks' starting secondary at the end of the '04 season: Cornerbacks Marcus Trufant (first round, 11th overall, 2003) and Ken Lucas (second round, 40th overall, 2001), and safeties Ken Hamlin (second round, 42nd overall, 2003) and Michael Boulware (second round, 53rd overall, 2004). Boulware earned all-rookie honors in 2004.

Additionally, Seattle's 2003 playoff team included five non-drafted free agents signed during Thompson's time at the personnel helm: running back Kerry Carter, long-snapper J.P. Darche, linebacker D.D. Lewis, wide receiver Jerheme Urban and linebacker Tracy White.




Or how about this?

Seattle said Ted Thompson drafted players for the SB 

Mike Holmgren, then the coach and general manager in Seattle, lured Thompson away from the Packers in January 2000.

His title was vice president of football operations, and with rare exception in the drafts from 2000 through 2004 the selections were made by Thompson, according to Seahawks vice president Mike Reinfeldt.


Consistently, Ted did a pretty good getting us good talent," Reinfeldt said. "We got some real, real impact players at 19 with Alexander and at 17 with Hutchinson, ranges you don't really know what you're getting. Ron saved himself in later rounds. Ted hit 50 to 60%, and when guys turn and go to the Pro Bowl, that will get you places."

2000 (Nine picks, three starters)

On the day before the draft, Thompson informed Reinfeldt that he was targeting Alexander at 19 and McIntosh at 22. The Seahawks got whom they wanted.

porky88
16 years ago

We had the T. Gonzalez trade finalized, but the Chiefs backed out on us. I think we had a round 2 draft pick for him but they backed out in the final minutes...

"Rockmolder" wrote:



We thought Tony G for a 3rd was the deal.

The Packers had the papers made up. Carl Peterson calls up and asks for a 2nd rounder instead and the Packers back out as they aren't going to give that up.

Pretty much Thompson was wiling to part with a 3rd, but not a 2nd.

His last three 2nd round picks have been Brandon Jackson, Brian Brohm, and Pat Lee. Nothing that real special although Jackson has played his role well. We're already getting an extra 2nd at least from the Favre trade too.

"porky88" wrote:



We didn't know about that 2nd rounder at that time though, the Jets didn't look that good when Favre just came there.

Don't think you can look at the last 2 years of 2nd round draft picks either. Pat Lee is still pretty rough, Jordy Nelson has even more potential than he's showing (I think) and Brian Brohm has been amazing in college... lets just hope he needs some time ot adjust.

I'm at school now so I can't look back at past drafts, but I recall him drafting pretty well in later rounds.

Maybe that's why we keep trading away these 1st rounders, I can't remember any good 1st rounder he took except for Rodgers. Guess you don't need that when you find gems like Jennings in the 2nd round.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



I actually just said it in another thread, but it applies here as well. I liked the job Thompson has done and I tend to think we need to wait another year like you say to see how the last two drafts pan out. Actually in the case of 08's draft, we need to wait probably another two years and maybe three if we're using Nick Collins and Aaron Rodgers as examples.

I do think the talent is there and I don't think we have enough room for many young players unless Thompson's plan is to just let their contracts expire and let other teams pay them big money. If so that's a mistake.

We're running out of room for young players. Top to bottom, I don't think we can take another 10 to 11 draft pick class and not be forced to let go a lot of quality talent. That's actually a good thing, but we need veteran leadership and we need veteran talent eventually. Ron Wolf went and got Keith Jackson for two years remember and I think he gave a 2nd or 3rd.

This team might be 5-6 because of the defense, but this team isn't getting blown out over and over. We've loss heartbreakers. If this team had one or two more players, it would be probably going for win number eight this week.

Your telling me Tony G doesn't make a different against Tennessee or Minnesota? I think he does and quite frankly, if the difference between 8-8 and 9-7 or 10-6 is Tony G, then you make that move in my opinion because 8-8 and the Pack miss the playoffs by a game. 9 or 10 wins and your division champs in my opinion.

I think it's time for a change of approach due to the good drafting Thompson has done. It's time to put the young team over the top and to do that you need good players right now, not more projects like Pat Lee who'll help two or three years down the road.
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Rockmolder
16 years ago

We had the T. Gonzalez trade finalized, but the Chiefs backed out on us. I think we had a round 2 draft pick for him but they backed out in the final minutes...

"porky88" wrote:



We thought Tony G for a 3rd was the deal.

The Packers had the papers made up. Carl Peterson calls up and asks for a 2nd rounder instead and the Packers back out as they aren't going to give that up.

Pretty much Thompson was wiling to part with a 3rd, but not a 2nd.

His last three 2nd round picks have been Brandon Jackson, Brian Brohm, and Pat Lee. Nothing that real special although Jackson has played his role well. We're already getting an extra 2nd at least from the Favre trade too.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



We didn't know about that 2nd rounder at that time though, the Jets didn't look that good when Favre just came there.

Don't think you can look at the last 2 years of 2nd round draft picks either. Pat Lee is still pretty rough, Jordy Nelson has even more potential than he's showing (I think) and Brian Brohm has been amazing in college... lets just hope he needs some time ot adjust.

I'm at school now so I can't look back at past drafts, but I recall him drafting pretty well in later rounds.

Maybe that's why we keep trading away these 1st rounders, I can't remember any good 1st rounder he took except for Rodgers. Guess you don't need that when you find gems like Jennings in the 2nd round.

"porky88" wrote:



I actually just said it in another thread, but it applies here as well. I liked the job Thompson has done and I tend to think we need to wait another year like you say to see how the last two drafts pan out. Actually in the case of 08's draft, we need to wait probably another two years and maybe three if we're using Nick Collins and Aaron Rodgers as examples.

I do think the talent is there and I don't think we have enough room for many young players unless Thompson's plan is to just let their contracts expire and let other teams pay them big money. If so that's a mistake.

We're running out of room for young players. Top to bottom, I don't think we can take another 10 to 11 draft pick class and not be forced to let go a lot of quality talent. That's actually a good thing, but we need veteran leadership and we need veteran talent eventually. Ron Wolf went and got Keith Jackson for two years remember and I think he gave a 2nd or 3rd.

This team might be 5-6 because of the defense, but this team isn't getting blown out over and over. We've loss heartbreakers. If this team had one or two more players, it would be probably going for win number eight this week.

Your telling me Tony G doesn't make a different against Tennessee or Minnesota? I think he does and quite frankly, if the difference between 8-8 and 9-7 or 10-6 is Tony G, then you make that move in my opinion because 8-8 and the Pack miss the playoffs by a game. 9 or 10 wins and your division champs in my opinion.

I think it's time for a change of approach due to the good drafting Thompson has done. It's time to put the young team over the top and to do that you need good players right now, not more projects like Pat Lee who'll help two or three years down the road.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



Wow, you said excactly what I was thinking, only in better English. +1 😛
macbob
16 years ago

On the whole, I think Ted Thompson grades out very well.

"mattresell" wrote:




I think Ted Thompson has good pad level as well.

"Packnic" wrote:



Yikes! I've got to stop watching press conferences. McCarthy-speak has become a part of my everyday vernacular. Next thing you know, everything will be done at "a high level" and I'll start "anticipating" things.

"mattresell" wrote:



That's something you're going to need to correct... 🙂
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