earthquake
7 years ago

I don’t live in Green Bay, but every time I have been there I have seen plenty of black people. Today’s Green Bay is not the 1960’s one.
There is plenty to do there, for any race of people.
It’s not New York or Los Angeles, but it doesn’t have as much crime as the “big cities”.
If you are a family man, and NOT just looking to party, it’s s great place.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



We have plenty of Black folks. My cousins feel they need to date every single one of them. 🙂 (nothing wrong with that either)

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Ooof, this sort of attitude is one of the (many) reasons black people feel less than comfortable in Green Bay, WI. Here's a tip, if you have to end your statement with "(nothing wrong with that either)", consider not saying it at all, because the impression you're giving is you do think something is wrong with that. I know you're a well intentioned guy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't have a problem with it, but it's good to be aware of how it sounds when saying things like that.

In general, if you're telling a story or a joke, and you feel compelled to mention someone's race, it's a good idea to reflect on why you're doing that. Is it important to the story? Does the joke hang on the fact that they are black guys? I'm certainly guilty of this myself on occasion, but it's something I've been trying to stop doing. Speaking with friends of color I've become more aware of how harmful things that we maybe don't notice or perhaps take for granted can be.

Certainly, it's not as bad as it was in the 60's or 70's. This applies to most cities though, the civil rights movement helped improve the plight of many minorities over the last 50 years. We don't have equality, but things are better for sure.

So, are there "plenty of black people" in Green Bay? No, not by any reasonably standard of measurement.

As of 2010, the census data shows the following percentage of Black people:
Buffalo: 39% 
Chicago: 33% 
Kansas City: 30%  
Minneapolis: 19% 
Green Bay: 4% 

Even when compared to nearby midwest cities, Green Bay is an extremely white, monocultural community. Buffalo is probably the closest in size/population, but the demographics show 10x as many black people live there.

I grew up in GB, and I've had the privilege of spending a lot of my life outside of GB as well. Green Bay WI is white as hell, and casual racism among people who live in GB is, from my experience at least, very common, though that is of course anecdotal and limited to the people I've interacted with. In my experience, Green Bay is not an attractive destination for black people, people of color in general, LGBT people, etc. It may be getting better, but most cities are actively getting better, so this is not a unique quality.

Bringing this back to foolball: It's not surprising that free agents do not flock to Green Bay on bargain deals, despite the team's continued success for the last 20+ years. They had to outbid everyone for Reggie White, and they have to outbid for other players today. This was probably a factor in Ted Thompson's reticence to sign many FAs, he didn't want to always be the team overpaying, though I think it's safe to say he probably took that too the far to the other extreme.
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Zero2Cool
7 years ago

Ooof, this sort of attitude is one of the (many) reasons black people feel less than comfortable in Green Bay, WI. Here's a tip, if you have to end your statement with "(nothing wrong with that either)", consider not saying it at all, because the impression you're giving is you do think something is wrong with that. I know you're a well intentioned guy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't have a problem with it, but it's good to be aware of how it sounds when saying things like that.

In general, if you're telling a story or a joke, and you feel compelled to mention someone's race, it's a good idea to reflect on why you're doing that. Is it important to the story? Does the joke hang on the fact that they are black guys? I'm certainly guilty of this myself on occasion, but it's something I've been trying to stop doing. Speaking with friends of color I've become more aware of how harmful things that we maybe don't notice or perhaps take for granted can be.

Certainly, it's not as bad as it was in the 60's or 70's. This applies to most cities though, the civil rights movement helped improve the plight of many minorities over the last 50 years. We don't have equality, but things are better for sure.

So, are there "plenty of black people" in Green Bay? No, not by any reasonably standard of measurement.

As of 2010, the census data shows the following percentage of Black people:
Buffalo: 39% 
Chicago: 33% 
Kansas City: 30%  
Minneapolis: 19% 
Green Bay: 4% 

Even when compared to nearby midwest cities, Green Bay is an extremely white, monocultural community.

I grew up in GB, and I've had the privilege of spending a lot of my life outside of GB as well. Green Bay WI is white as hell, and casual racism among people who live in GB is, from my experience at least, very common, though that is of course anecdotal and limited to the people I've interacted with. In my experience, Green Bay is not an attractive destination for black people, people of color in general, LGBT people, etc. It may be getting better, but most cities are actively getting better, so this is not a unique quality.

Bringing this back to foolball: It's not surprising that free agents do not flock to Green Bay on bargain deals, despite the team's continued success for the last 20+ years. They had to outbid everyone for Reggie White, and they have to outbid for other players today. This was probably a factor in Ted Thompson's reticence to sign many FAs, he didn't want to always be the team overpaying, though I think it's safe to say he probably took that too the far to the other extreme.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Interesting you took my comment as about color, rather than my cousins being promiscuous. Shame on you.
UserPostedImage
earthquake
7 years ago

Interesting you took my comment as about color, rather than my cousins being promiscuous. Shame on you.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Lol, you're the one who made it about color by mentioning their race.

It is disappointing to see that after putting in the effort to write a carefully considered post, all you get out of it is that. Maybe give introspection a try rather than simply being defensive? Try to imagine how it might feel to be black and hear that joke?

Honestly, this wasn't meant as a dig at you. I know you're a reasonable guy otherwise I wouldn't have bothered writing any of this. Maybe take a step back, and read this again later?
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Zero2Cool
7 years ago

Lol, you're the one who made it about color by mentioning their race.

Is disappointing to see that after putting in the effort to write a carefully considered post, all you get out of it is that. Maybe give introspection a try rather than simply being defensive? Try to imagine how it might feel to be black and hear that joke?

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



At work, in a meeting. No time.
UserPostedImage
gbguy20
7 years ago
I need a new career if you're able to post on a packers forum while in a meeting. Shit.
BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
earthquake
7 years ago

At work, in a meeting. No time.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Sure, take your time. This is a difficult subject to speak about without ruffling feathers, and reading intent and tone on the internet is a minefield. Let me see if I can frame what I'm saying a bit better.

First off, I won't feel shameful for calling out racism in any form. Now, please don't stop reading at this point, let me explain. I think the only way we can begin to address race relation problems is to talk about them openly and honestly.

I don't look at racism as binary. To me, racism is a spectrum that goes from Hitler on one end to imaginary utopian or whatever you want to label the opposite axis. Most people are good, decent folk who land somewhere in the middle of this spectrum, and where one lands, or even the specific actions that one takes, will vary throughout one's life. If we think of racism as 0 or 1, it prevents meaningful discussion.

I will be the first to admit that I have racist tendencies, I've made racist jokes (and will undoubtedly again in the future, laugh at other's racist jokes, and feel bad about it as well - emotional responses are complex and often contradictory), I have sub-conscience reactions to people of different races in different situations in life (how our perceptions are molded by our personal experiences and our environment is a topic we could spend days discussing). This is something that basically all people experience. Everyone, of every race, is racist to some degree.

There are few people I would consider Racist with a capitol R, and by that I mean someone who is defined or driven by hatred for others. These people are the exception. But that doesn't mean they are the only people capable of racist actions, nor does it mean that all racist actions are equally atrocious.

So when I say something like, maybe you should think about if or why that joke is racist, I'm not calling you a Racist, I'm not saying you're a Bad Person. I'm just challenging you to think and to empathize, which I think on the whole, is a positive thing that we should strive to do as a society. Again, I wouldn't bother doing this if I didn't think you were a good, reasonable, intelligent dude. My response was probably too snarky, for which I apologize.

In the context of understanding why Green Bay is (relative to other NFL cities) a less desirable place for black people to live, I think it's important to look at the culture, which is almost exclusively the culture of the white people who live there or grew up there such as myself. When you get these sort of monocultures, attitudes tend to lean more exclusive, less welcoming to minorities or outsiders in general (this is evident throughout the world/history). Generally, the more diversity you get in one area, the better different kinds of people people get along (though there are of course exceptions). Usually, the cure for a lack of diversity is more diversity, but often it's a chicken an egg problem. People of color don't want to come to GB, WI, because there aren't many people of color there. How does one solve that problem? Generally, by making others feel more welcome, which can be done at many levels, not just the obvious ones. Now, that's a gross simplification of the issue, but at the end of the day, when things get better for those with less opportunities, they tend to get better for everyone.

TL;DR: Rantings of a bleeding heart liberal on a conservative leaning website lol.
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Zero2Cool
7 years ago

Lol, you're the one who made it about color by mentioning their race.

It is disappointing to see that after putting in the effort to write a carefully considered post, all you get out of it is that. Maybe give introspection a try rather than simply being defensive? Try to imagine how it might feel to be black and hear that joke?

Honestly, this wasn't meant as a dig at you. I know you're a reasonable guy otherwise I wouldn't have bothered writing any of this. Maybe take a step back, and read this again later?

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



My apologies, I was in a meeting and waiting for the projector to display my screen and hit the PH website. I am addicted to this place, it's a flaw of mine! Anyhow, I was being facetious with the shame on you. You've never met me, hung out with me, you don't know me. Also, you don't know my cousins or their ... 'ways'. I guess it was more of an inside joke for those in my family who read the site. So I was skimming posts, saw yours and thought I'd chime in. I wasn't offended or nothing by what you said if that was the perception my "shame on you" gave off. Funny thing, I had "shame on you, fucker" at first and I was like "no no that'll be taken wrong". Go figure, my softer joke came off wrong still! haha.

We in Green Bay have lots of different types of folks. Hispanics, Black, Oriental, it's a huge mix here. You can't go 10 minutes downtown without getting the full melting pot feeling. I actually do not like that Green Bay is seemingly turning into a "big" city. When I moved back from Colorado, all the sudden they were building these "fly over" highways. What the shit? NO! I loved our small town charm we once had.

Thus, I have decided to keep my family in the Howard/Suamico area and once the girls are grown and kicked out, err, moved out willingly on their own, I intend on moving a bit more north away from people so there's less "city" feel.

Sorry if I came off wrong to you. I didn't mean to shake your world from the ground. (get it? see what I did there? do ya???)
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
7 years ago

I need a new career if you're able to post on a packers forum while in a meeting. Shit.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20 



Haha, it was just me waiting for the projector to start working and waiting for others to join the meeting.
UserPostedImage
DoddPower
7 years ago

Ooof, this sort of attitude is one of the (many) reasons black people feel less than comfortable in Green Bay, WI. Here's a tip, if you have to end your statement with "(nothing wrong with that either)", consider not saying it at all, because the impression you're giving is you do think something is wrong with that. I know you're a well intentioned guy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't have a problem with it, but it's good to be aware of how it sounds when saying things like that.

In general, if you're telling a story or a joke, and you feel compelled to mention someone's race, it's a good idea to reflect on why you're doing that. Is it important to the story? Does the joke hang on the fact that they are black guys? I'm certainly guilty of this myself on occasion, but it's something I've been trying to stop doing. Speaking with friends of color I've become more aware of how harmful things that we maybe don't notice or perhaps take for granted can be.

Certainly, it's not as bad as it was in the 60's or 70's. This applies to most cities though, the civil rights movement helped improve the plight of many minorities over the last 50 years. We don't have equality, but things are better for sure.

So, are there "plenty of black people" in Green Bay? No, not by any reasonably standard of measurement.

As of 2010, the census data shows the following percentage of Black people:
Buffalo: 39% 
Chicago: 33% 
Kansas City: 30%  
Minneapolis: 19% 
Green Bay: 4% 

Even when compared to nearby midwest cities, Green Bay is an extremely white, monocultural community. Buffalo is probably the closest in size/population, but the demographics show 10x as many black people live there.

I grew up in GB, and I've had the privilege of spending a lot of my life outside of GB as well. Green Bay WI is white as hell, and casual racism among people who live in GB is, from my experience at least, very common, though that is of course anecdotal and limited to the people I've interacted with. In my experience, Green Bay is not an attractive destination for black people, people of color in general, LGBT people, etc. It may be getting better, but most cities are actively getting better, so this is not a unique quality.

Bringing this back to foolball: It's not surprising that free agents do not flock to Green Bay on bargain deals, despite the team's continued success for the last 20+ years. They had to outbid everyone for Reggie White, and they have to outbid for other players today. This was probably a factor in Ted Thompson's reticence to sign many FAs, he didn't want to always be the team overpaying, though I think it's safe to say he probably took that too the far to the other extreme.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Great post. Even supported with some data. Props.
Zero2Cool
7 years ago

Great post. Even supported with some data. Props.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



If we could just get him to post more often ...
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