sschind
6 years ago

I think you make a great point, but I'm still confused as to what counts as a drop and what doesn't... as my personal counting always seems to be higher than the "official" version... and I've seen where balls have bounced off WRs hands and some how not seem to have counted as a drop.

Also the Seahawks had one of the worst OLs, I wonder if that might of caused some more quick throwing and quick dropped passes... plus I remember a video clip (either ESPN or NFL Network) suggesting that Seahawks had been forcing Graham to try back corner passes for TDs and he was struggling with those and got some drops, and finally talked the Seahawks into simply letting him go into the endzone and post the defender up and box him out (like a basketball player, which Graham used to be) and that's what lead to more TDs. But, I think, Graham had a couple of drops in the redzone, only to catch a touchdown on the very next play.

Originally Posted by: beast 



That is true what constitutes a drop may be almost as convoluted as what makes a catch. I looked at 3 different sources and each one said he had 7 but it is possible each source used the same "official" source. Some other "official" source may have different numbers.



Zero2Cool
6 years ago

Do you actually believe a player can be graded based on 10 [good] plays? Let’s try to evaluate Graham with a little more depth of thought and football acumen:

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Sorry, I am not biting. Touchdowns put points on the board, and points are what dictate wins. If he gets us 10 TD's, I don't give two shits about your ratings you link to. I want POINTS!!!
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dhazer
6 years ago
Hey cmon now he filled a need position, but made more of a weak position already. So now we line cobb and Adams up outside and graham in the slot. And Rodgers has 2 sends to pass the ball because the line can't block lol.I would have loved to see us sign Barton from Philly over Graham anyday. But we have the God at qb that just so happens to be hurt in some way every year now and demands he has a say in every decision. I remember an old QB that tried doing that and everyone hated him for it and said it wasn't right. But its different with Rodgers because he won a Super Bowl.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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Barfarn
6 years ago

Sorry, I am not biting. Touchdowns put points on the board, and points are what dictate wins. If he gets us 10 TD's, I don't give two shits about your ratings you link to. I want POINTS!!!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Yes "POINTS" matter; what your missing is that Graham's presence on the field will NOT yield more points for GB's offense. He didn't help NO score more points; he didn't help Seattle score more points. It is because he does so much wrong on so many plays. I also I think he's too stupid to learn the complex offensive adjustments.

The facts show Rich Rodgers, over the last 3 years, is 20% better at scoring than Graham. His own mate is as good or better as well.

You have to think in terms of WAR [Wins above replacement]; that is what does a player ADD to a team when he's on the field instead of an average player.
Dulak
6 years ago

Sorry, I am not biting. Touchdowns put points on the board, and points are what dictate wins. If he gets us 10 TD's, I don't give two shits about your ratings you link to. I want POINTS!!!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



So ... TDs count ya? ... lets look at Jordys numbers ... 2016 14TD bit better then the ole JG. oh and jordy lost a step in 2017 ... 1st 5 games with rodgers (for some reason jordy didnt play one of them but the 4 games he was in he scored 6 TDs.) -

I see that he didnt score any with the gum chewing qb playing he favored adams as his go to man. But we all know that hundley will probably be out (at least we hope that he doesnt continue to be our starter ...) - and rodgers back in with kizer as our new backup.

I realize nelson is getting older but with those stats as mentioned above - I dont see how you cannot keep him. How a guy runs vs another doesnt show when it comes to the chemistry he and rodgers had. But the numbers do. And the numbers say - thats going to be hard to replace.

if we look at the stats vs nelson and JG - both players numbers declined last year compared to the previous. Although JG had more TDs but then again thats the way he is used - he doesnt have to go get yardage as much. And we already know we arnt looking at hundleys stats for what we have in a QB ... (least I hope not).

hard to judge but nelson was one of the best pass blocking WR out there; let alone he knew what rodgers was going to do before rodgers was going to do it ... false start, blitz etc ...

I dont care how much they are paying JG - I dont see how he is going to replace JN
Zero2Cool
6 years ago

So ... TDs count ya? ... lets look at Jordys numbers ... 2016 14TD bit better then the ole JG. oh and jordy lost a step in 2017 ... 1st 5 games with rodgers (for some reason jordy didnt play one of them but the 4 games he was in he scored 6 TDs.) -

I see that he didnt score any with the gum chewing qb playing he favored adams as his go to man. But we all know that hundley will probably be out (at least we hope that he doesnt continue to be our starter ...) - and rodgers back in with kizer as our new backup.

I realize nelson is getting older but with those stats as mentioned above - I dont see how you cannot keep him. How a guy runs vs another doesnt show when it comes to the chemistry he and rodgers had. But the numbers do. And the numbers say - thats going to be hard to replace.

if we look at the stats vs nelson and JG - both players numbers declined last year compared to the previous. Although JG had more TDs but then again thats the way he is used - he doesnt have to go get yardage as much. And we already know we arnt looking at hundleys stats for what we have in a QB ... (least I hope not).

hard to judge but nelson was one of the best pass blocking WR out there; let alone he knew what rodgers was going to do before rodgers was going to do it ... false start, blitz etc ...

I dont care how much they are paying JG - I dont see how he is going to replace JN

Originally Posted by: Dulak 



Jimmy Graham is TE, not a WR, therefore, he's not replacing WR Jordy Nelson. A vertical threat at TE will help open things up for the WR's who collectively will pick up the production we will be missing from Jordy Nelson.

Offense isn't something I worry too much about. I don't like losing Jordy Nelson, but he's not getting yards after the catch, he's not the same player. I do think he'll light it up this season based on motivation, but fall off huge the following season. He didn't have that motivation to prove Packers wrong for cutting him if the Packers didn't cut him.
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Barfarn
6 years ago

Hey cmon now he filled a need position, but made more of a weak position already. So now we line cobb and Adams up outside and graham in the slot. And Rodgers has 2 sends to pass the ball because the line can't block lol.I would have loved to see us sign Barton from Philly over Graham anyday. But we have the God at qb that just so happens to be hurt in some way every year now and demands he has a say in every decision. I remember an old QB that tried doing that and everyone hated him for it and said it wasn't right. But its different with Rodgers because he won a Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



Having a TE that can both pass catch and block, makes play action or the threat of the more run viable. This causes LBers and safeties to pause a split-second before responding to their coverage responsibility, which helps receivers gain separation.

With Graham on the field, our run game will be less viable, which will hurt the passing game. If you try to only use Graham on passing plays, the D will pick-up that tendency and the TE substitutions will mitigate one of Rodgers' greatest strengths.

You watch highlights of Graham doing these amazing things and think, "wow I want that guy"...I get it. Or you see a stat, 10 TDs last year. But, what you dont see on the highlights and TD stats is how his other weaknesses consistently sabotage the offense and cause punts.

Whatever his pluses give you; they are mitigated by his minuses. At the end of the day, he doesn't add anything an average TE cant give you.

Are new GM is a moron!
beast
6 years ago

Also, keep in mind once Rodgers went down, Nelson DISAPPEARED! Davante Adams still lit it up, Randall Cobb even had a few good games. Nelson just completely fell off the chart.

As for TE Jimmy Graham, he is a receiving tight end, period.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Nelson completely fell off the chart because the new QB couldn't or wouldn't throw the ball more than 5 yards down the field and with Cobb and Adams being assigned most of the short routes (because they're quicker than Nelson) the new QB wouldn't throw it Nelson way even when he got open.

Also I fixed your statement about Graham... I don't think it's correct to simply call him a tightend period because that's how the Seahawks used him and asked him to block a lot at times and clearly that didn't work so well.
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musccy
6 years ago



Are new GM is a moron!

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



This made me 🤣

beast
6 years ago

Are new GM is a moron!

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 


Looks like he's not the only one.
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (21h) : Bengals planning to Franchise Tag Tamaurice Higgins
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
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