uffda udfa
8 years ago
I would say Jordy Nelson is vastly superior in being able to contort his body to make a catch.

Davante is able to catch disappearing balls. The ones Rodgers throws that leave you wondering what happened for a second because there is no separation. Those catches in traffic are a group wide trait. Even high times Geronimo has made those kind of catches.

I used to ask all the time what is a or the trait Davante possesses that makes him desirable? I'm still not sure what that is. Perhaps, his strength? Barfarn seemed to indicate it was body control which Z has pointed to or the ability to set up the DB to get by him. I don't see all 22 so not sure if that's his calling card or not.

Ultimately, his perception is benefited greatly by literally being the worst WR in the NFL last season. Kind of the same reason we think we have good ILBs now... They've been so terrible that average looks good in comparison.


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
8 years ago

You said in two separate posts:
You even posted an explanation for why speed would be negatively correlated:

Why should I care about the SXCH ratings?

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



I'll try one more time. I’ll teach you something here!

The argument: Speed is unequivocally a positive trait for WR. But amongst top 10 WRs as rated by Sports Exchange; the fastest WRs are not as good as the slowest. Hence, speed as a trait is given too much importance when rating WR prospects.

Your argument cant be directly addressed because it is replete with every logic error known to man several times over.

The Sports Exchange is the best predictor of draft position and they use the best measure of 40 time [not necessarily the fastest or electronic]. If you disagree, educate yourself, look at the top 10 WRs, they rarely miss, if they do it’s not by so much and sometimes they’re right when they “missed.”

Why'd I use the sample I did? Because top 10 over 6 years is much better than using top 60 one year or WRs rated 40-50 over 6 years. You want a bigger sample size...the world is your effing oyster.

If you cant see that the faster guys are not as good as slower guys, you just need to educate yourself, develop your own criteria. The football gods helps those that help themselves.

A Barfarn teaching moment: When testing to see if a coin is weighted is flips enough? If you say no, YOU ARE WRONG! I’ll show you later.

Are 20 flips of coin enough to tell if a coin is weighted? The correct answer is: IT DEPENDS ON THE RESULT!!!! If the coin lands on, EG, heads 11 times out of 20; this is evidence that the coin is weighed to heads. It is very weak evidence; and more flips of the coin must be made to strengthen the evidence; yet, to say this is “nothing” is not scholarly. But, one who asserts the coin is weighted to heads because it landed on head 19 or 20 times out of 20; has very strong evidence to support his hypothesis.

Now back to the 2 flips! If one flips the coin twice and it lands on its edge; that is sufficient data to determine that coins is weighted to land on its edge because the actual result deviates so drastically from the expected result.

By demonstrating the top 3 slowEST are better than the top 3 fastEST [this is significant, often .2, sometimes .3, seconds] of the sample size of 60 WRs provided statistically significant results to establish the forego hypotheses that speed is overrated.


I used to ask all the time what is a or the trait Davante possesses that makes him desirable? I'm still not sure what that is. Perhaps, his strength? Barfarn seemed to indicate it was body control which Z has pointed to or the ability to set up the DB to get by him. I don't see all 22 so not sure if that's his calling card or not.
Ultimately, his perception is benefited greatly by literally being the worst WR in the NFL last season.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 




Think Nerd correctly said Body control. I speak of his strong route running and separation abilities.

He was not the worst receiver last year; he was below average. He is not a pro bowl receiver this year, he simply took the next naturally progressing 3rd year step in reading and reacting to the D. If he keeps progressing he’ll be unstoppable.

You don't need all 22; 90% of his moves are in the screen.
mi_keys
8 years ago

I'll try one more time. I’ll teach you something here!

The argument: Speed is unequivocally a positive trait for WR.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



That me be what you actually believe but that isn't what you said and that isn't what I responded to.

But amongst top 10 WRs as rated by Sports Exchange; the fastest WRs are not as good as the slowest. Hence, speed as a trait is given too much importance when rating WR prospects.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Are they not? You never showed they were not as good. You never addressed the mediocre to shit players in the slowest list that I mentioned nor did you address the elite players in the fastest list. Both lists had quite a range of players.

Your argument cant be directly addressed because it is replete with every logic error known to man several times over.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



I'd love to hear you cite them.

The Sports Exchange is the best predictor of draft position and they use the best measure of 40 time [not necessarily the fastest or electronic].

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



As measured by whom and compared to whom?

If you disagree, educate yourself, look at the top 10 WRs, they rarely miss, if they do it’s not by so much and sometimes they’re right when they “missed.”

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Already told you I didn't know who they are so why would I have an opinion on how right or wrong they are?

Why'd I use the sample I did? Because top 10 over 6 years is much better than using top 60 one year or WRs rated 40-50 over 6 years. You want a bigger sample size...the world is your effing oyster.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Do you understand the problems with non-random sampling? Taking only the top 10 is not a representative sample of the class of receivers as a whole. If you don't understand the problems of sampling bias or non-random sampling, you don't understand basic statistics.

If you cant see that the faster guys are not as good as slower guys, you just need to educate yourself, develop your own criteria. The football gods helps those that help themselves.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



I listed several examples in which the receivers of the fastest group were among the best in the league or are the best in the league. I listed several examples in which the receivers in the slowest group were complete no-names. Both sets were a mixed bag. But you never addressed those examples.

A Barfarn teaching moment: When testing to see if a coin is weighted is flips enough? If you say no, YOU ARE WRONG! I’ll show you later.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



A loosely related analogy that doesn't prove your point? Oh boy, I can't wait!

Are 20 flips of coin enough to tell if a coin is weighted? The correct answer is: IT DEPENDS ON THE RESULT!!!! If the coin lands on, EG, heads 11 times out of 20; this is evidence that the coin is weighed to heads. It is very weak evidence; and more flips of the coin must be made to strengthen the evidence; yet, to say this is “nothing” is not scholarly. But, one who asserts the coin is weighted to heads because it landed on head 19 or 20 times out of 20; has very strong evidence to support his hypothesis.

Now back to the 2 flips! If one flips the coin twice and it lands on its edge; that is sufficient data to determine that coins is weighted to land on its edge because the actual result deviates so drastically from the expected result.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



And you think the small, non-random sample you pulled in which you did no demonstrate one set was better than the other represents two coin flips both landing on their edge? Sure thing, mate.

By demonstrating the top 3 slowEST are better than the top 3 fastEST [this is significant, often .2, sometimes .3, seconds] of the sample size of 60 WRs provided statistically significant results to establish the forego hypotheses that speed is overrated.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



You never demonstrated clearly that the 3 slowEST are better than the 3 fastEST. You haven't addressed the issue of non-random sampling. You can dismiss the concerns with sampling size all you want, it doesn't make them any less valid. Aside from an answer about the Sports Xchange, you addressed just about none of the concerns with your methodology.
Born and bred a cheesehead
uffda udfa
8 years ago
I didn't quote Barfarn saying Davante wasn't the worst WR last year. I posted this many times last off season. It always depends on what stat measure you use but he was 2nd to last in a rating that iirc is similar to QB ratings. Considering Davante wasn't our 4th or 5th WR last year I can confidently say he was the worst starting WR in the NFL which is not what I previously stated. However, when you're second to dead last I took the liberty of calling him the worst based on him being our #1.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
8 years ago
Special.


UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
8 years ago
Check who #31 is for Dallas and the kind of season he had. He makes Demetri Goodson look like Deion Sanders.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


steveishere
8 years ago
Davante has gotten really good this year at beating press and overcoming physical play by DBs near the line which is important for his development because he'll never be a burner. Don't think he'll ever be what prime Jordy was for us but he's definitely going to be responsible for some big plays for our offense.
Porforis
8 years ago

Davante has gotten really good this year at beating press and overcoming physical play by DBs near the line which is important for his development because he'll never be a burner. Don't think he'll ever be what prime Jordy was for us but he's definitely going to be responsible for some big plays for our offense.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



So hopefully a James Jones?
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