Zero2Cool
16 years ago

In Sundays back-and-forth affair between the Packers and Vikings at the Metrodome, a pair of points awarded to the home team in the first half ended up being a huge factor in the one-point win by Minnesota.

It happened when Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers was attempting to avoid being tackled in the end zone for a safety. While stumbling to the ground, he blindly flipped the ball in underhand fashion, conjuring memories of a certain quarterback who preceded Rodgers as a Packer.

Heres the video.
[youtube]Hgs5xw6ghKM[/youtube]


Pausing the video at 0:07 (Mmmmichael Scarn) shows that the ball landed less than two yards short of the line of scrimmage, and in the general vicinity of a receiver.

Initially, the officials awarded a safety to the Vikings. After an on-field conference during which the debate seemed to focus on whether a receiver was in the vicinity of the throw and/or whether the ball had gotten back to the line of scrimmage, referee Alberto Riveron announced that Rodgers had thrown an illegal forward pass, which equated to a safety.

In our view, Riveron called it an illegal forward pass because he realized that it wasnt intentional grounding. Under Rule 8, Section 3, Article 1 of the 2008 Official Playing Rules, intentional grounding would have occurred if there had not been a realistic chance of completing the pass, or if the ball had not landed near or beyond the line of scrimmage. (Rodgers clearly was out of the pocket, which is a prerequisite to avoiding a grounding call by throwing the ball near or beyond the line of scrimmage, regardless of whether a receiver is in the area.)

We base our conclusion in this regard on in-game images of Packers coach Mike McCarthys argument with the officials, which images strongly suggested that the decision resulted from the unconventional Favre-esque throwing motion that Rodgers had used. (McCarthy confirmed this after the game: The interpretation that I was given was that it was an unnatural throwing motion so with that decision it was a safety.)

It clearly wasnt a natural throwing motion; but the rules dont require a pass to be thrown with a natural motion. Under Rule 8, Section 1, Article 1, a legal forward pass is any pass (including an attempt to fumble forward) made from behind the line of scrimmage, if the ball hasnt moved beyond the line of scrimmage and then returned behind it. An illegal forward pass is 🅰ny other forward pass.

So the ungainly desperation toss by Rodgers wasnt an illegal forward pass.

The league apparently realizes this. In an e-mail on Sunday night, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said that it wasnt an illegal forward pass, per se. It was intentional grounding, Aiello wrote. The QB was out of the pocket but he didnt get the ball back to the line of scrimmage. The ball was snapped from the 10 and the ball landed at the 8. The referee announced illegal forward pass, which is what intentional grounding is.

Riveron seemed to adopted this same approach after the game. When pressed by reporters on the illegal forward pass call, Riveron said, Intentional grounding.

But intentional grounding isnt an illegal forward pass. They are two distinct penalties, with two separate sets of consequences.

Intentional grounding results in a loss of ten yards or the spot of the foul, whichever is greater, and a loss of down. An illegal forward pass results in a five-yard penalty and no loss of down.

So well stand on our belief that Riveron played the illegal forward pass call based on the throwing motion, because one or more other members of his crew were insisting that a receiver was in the area and/or the ball was sufficiently near the line of scrimmage.

And so the lesson that this first-year referee likely has learned today is that I know it when I see it logic has no application to a 111-page rule book in which a visceral belief as to conduct that should trigger a penalty doesnt always constitute a violation.


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Formo
16 years ago
Interesting.

Question is.. if their is a different set of consequences for each penalty, what are they if the penalty happens in their offending teams own end zone? Same thing, a safety? Or what?
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Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
NormaL
16 years ago
Was curious about that myself. Saftey or no depending on the call?
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You want to finish your career here?
Favre: "Definitely. If in two years, say, they want to trade me, I'd probably walk away. Retire."
Formo
16 years ago
I did a little research.. And looks like it doesn't matter what the call was, Intentional Grounding or Illegal Forward Pass, if the QB is in his own end zone, it's ruled as a safety.

But, that's not definitive. I got that threw a 3rd party.
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Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
obi1
16 years ago
So Can we take the 2 points off the score of the Vikings?

Put an asterisk on this game in the next year's Team media guide's results page as the "referee's wrong call,(illegal forward pass) that resulted in a safety" game
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Overkill
16 years ago
Anybody catch Aikman or Buck say they wouldn't even've called it if it'd been Favre? Refs made more than one :xcensoredx: up call.
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agopackgo4
16 years ago
we have been getting :xcensoredx: over alot this year, espicially on defense.
IronMan
16 years ago
I'm not going to complain about a call like this when we sucked as bad as we did.
NormaL
16 years ago
Peter King MMQB: The officials screwed up an early safety call on the Packers that, obviously, could have been a huge difference in a one-point Green Bay loss. While being upended in the end zone, Aaron Rodgers threw an underhanded pass that landed about three yards from Packers tight end Tory Humphrey, and ref Alberto Riveron called it an illegal forward pass. Only it wasn't, because quarterbacks often make underhanded scoop passes, which this was. After the game Riveron called it intentional grounding, and it wasn't that either, because Humphrey was so close. So this was a gift two points for the Vikes.
UserPostedImage
You want to finish your career here?
Favre: "Definitely. If in two years, say, they want to trade me, I'd probably walk away. Retire."
bozz_2006
16 years ago
we didn't deserve to win anyway. not worth thinking aobut, imo.
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beast (22-Apr) : What is he supposed to say? He doesn't want players currently on the team?
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dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
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