MM talked about not having a big receiver running through the middle in his last press conference. There is no way he was speaking of Richard Rodgers.

The way Rodgers was used in the Offense is the reason for his paltry YPC and YAC NOT because of his skill set or measurables. 90% of Rodgers routes were outs, out and ups, outside hook or curls and inside hook or curls and very shallow slant or dig routes. There is one and only one game where Rodgers was used running through the middle more than 4 times in any games of the11 I charted this year, that was in Detroit and the results were spectacular: 8 plays, 5 targets, 1 PI for 40 yards, 4 completions, 86 yards, 1 PI for 40 yards, 10.25 YAC/catch.

I challenge anyone to specifically identify one play where Rodgers ran through the middle and was too slow to be effective. Anyone who really watched R.Rod in the referenced Detroit game knows he is fast enough to threaten the middle of the field.

Here’s those 8 plays:

:55 1st Q, Rodgers sets up for a 2 line hook left; he then scrambles through the middle and gets 5 yrds beyond Det. Safety Quddus on right. AR’s throw was so short Rodgers had to stop, Quddus ran into him for a 40 yard PI. Rodgers had 3 PI calls for 67 yards only TE with more was Marcellus Bennett [4-92] and only other TE with more PI yards was J.Cook [2-91]. These are yards that show Rodgers’ production that do not count in the standard stats.

:09 1st Q. Rodgers runs a slant from in line TE position; has a good 1.5 yard of separation on Bynes [LB] makes catch at 9 yards and is tackled for 15 yard gain.

14:57 2nd Q. Rodgers runs another slant from in-line TE position. This time he has 2 yards separation on Quddus. Makes catch at 12 yards and tackled for 19 yard gain.

8:02 3rd Q. Packers went 3 receivers spread left and 1 right. Rodgers was the inside most receiver left split out about 5 yards from tackle. He ran a 3 line drag, got 5 yards of separation on Quinn and AR hit him on right side at 15 yards and was tackled after 26 yard gain.

14:20 4th Q. Packers run same play as above, except 3 receivers right. Rodgers runs his 3 line drag has 2 yards separation; but Josh walker had just come in for Baktierri and AR was sacked way to fast to allow a completion.

5:09 4th Q. Rodgers from right inline TE position runs a seam route right he was covered; throw went to Starks on left. AR never looked right.

4:37 4th Q. Packers went 3 receivers spread right and 1 left. Rodgers was the inside most receiver right split out about 5 yards from tackle. He ran a slant, humiliated Quddus with a fantastic route, got 3 yards of separation on him AR hit him on right side at 9 yards and was tackled after 26 yard gain.

3:17 4th Q. run same play as above, but this time throw went to Addams left on 1st read; when the ball was thrown, Rodgers right slant he looked open, but his defender was already reacting to ball in the air, so it was too soon to know if Rodgers would have been open, if the ball was delivered on 2nd or 3rd read.

Thanks for posting that, and I agree. I've been saying the same thing, although without giving an analysis of the specific examples of each play.

RR's dad was also interviewed at the SB. He's an assistant coach for Carolina. He said that RR was playing at 270-275 this year, and he's gonna slim down to at least 265-260, in order to add some speed.

He's done that before, in order to play WR in college.

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I'll give you one right off the top but his lack of speed worked greatly in our favor. The rainbow in Detroit. He was so freaking slow going down the field he was just getting there in front of all the others who were already in the endzone that he became a hero for his pedestrian speed.

If ever a posted title scream forum fight it was this one. You are unrelenting on Richard freaking Rodgers and I can't say I understand why. Will you be writing this again next offseason?

You noted his lack of YAC. He has no athleticism. He's slow and can't break a tackle to save his life.

The biggest oversight in the above post is there is a reason he doesn't run down the middle of the field. HE....CAN'T....RUN!!!! Should we put BJ Raji in at FB and have him run down the middle of the field? No. Same reason we don't send RR down there. He's simply ineffective. If you want a quote a game vs. a Lions team with a brutal secondary and in full coast mode as reasons why this isn't true you're welcome to it. The intangibles are always important to look at. If he was truly so dynamic and effective he would've been used more in this role where he "tore it up" at Detroit...but...he...wasn't. I thought you may have had a point when I considered all the players that don't get chances that should in Green Bay but RR does get chances and he's just not good with the ones he's got.

Your subject line left me wanting to hear why he'll be fine? Why? I didn't get that from what you wrote. You seem to like to watch tape and then spin it into something that nobody else saw but you but you start with a premise that RR is a fine TE. Your views on him have been well established. I feel like you're fighting vigorously to not let go of your belief in a middling TE for the Green Bay Packers.

Let it go.


EDIT: Nerd, I'd cool the jets on your excitement over what his dad said. You do realize RR weighed in at the combine at 257 and ran 4.87. The guy is SLOW. Understand that...accept that and stop making excuses and posting things that are predicting things that are just not going to happen. He's already been 257 and trained super hard to run a fast 40 and COULDN'T. So, he WON'T next year or any year after.

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Can we please get a tight that can punish a defense with speed and athleticism, you know, the opposite of Richard Rodgers so that fans like Barfarn knows what a good tight end is?

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This is a perfect post for a RESPECTFUL and HONEST debate. This post informs and provides unique perspective. Moreover, it was not published at any other time and can only be found at Packers Home; for the Packers Home family’s edification and debate. Moreover, I suspect there are folks [the silent majority] reading this thinking to themselves “very interesting, I’d like to hear RESPECTFUL counter-argument based on the similar FOOTBALL principles.”

Here’s more info:
Again like the good GM/Bad GM debate; a good TE is a relative thing. T.J Rubely is a HOF QB if he completes 40% of his passes; but no one else can do better than 20%. R.Rodgers is not relatively real fast and he had an 8.8 YPC; but what I’m saying is that these 2 issues are not causally linked. His average and YAC #s were held down by the routes he ran. Brent Celek was just as slow as Rodgers yet averaged at 30 14.7 YPC and almost 13 for his career. Yet, TE’s in 2015 that were faster, Marcellus Bennett, Rivera and Maxx Williams [you know the guy we were supposed to draft #1 in 2015] all had less YPC. Other “athletic” TEs Witten, Fleener avg 9.1 and 9.3 YPC; some big names like Julius Thomas [another FA missed by Ted Thompson in 2015] averaged 9.9; Clay, Rudolph averaged just a touch over 10 YPC. Duane Allen is going to get paid and he avg 6.8 YPC. But, unlike all the other TEs mentioned Rodgers is only a 2nd year guy in the most difficult offense in the NFL to learn Maxx Williams is a rookie, but offense is not as complicated].

The fact is that when Rodgers got the opportunities like the Jimmy Grahams Gronks and Gateses, he was effective. Now, I doubt he gets many double teams and he is and will never be Gronk or Gregg Olsen, Witten, Ertz or Heath Miller [the 5 best TEs in football]; but he is not a weakness.

We can say he is capable of challenging the middle or we can say he's not. Its been shown that when he was allowed to run through the middle 8 times v. Detroit it resulted in 5 targets and 5 positive gains and stellar YAC.

You are too bright for this post, Barfarn and I mean that completely respectfully. You, yourself, would first say if you were trying to debunk it that 5 routes vs. Detroit over a 2 year career is a ridiculously miniscule sample size and in no way should be extrapolated to the lengths you have.

Another counter point...you consistently call MM a brilliant head coach. One of the best...right up there with Bill Belichick who praises MM for his prowess. Now, in this post you all but imply this is the fault of MM for not allowing him to do this and when he actually did it was successful. So, by making this point you are undoing a previous point made about the brilliance of MM. It can't be both.

We all watch these games. We all see Richard Rodgers fall down, immediately, upon contact...run like a DE not a DEER, yet, you spin him into something he isn't based on FIVE PLAYS AT DETROIT when we were woefully behind and Detroit had it dialed down? That's foolhardy. We have seen our Packers go into that very shell Detroit did that night way too many times. Have any of us drawn any ill conclusions about our team when the other team amasses tons of yard against us once we stopped trying? I don't think the Chiefs drew anything from what they did to us after we had them buried at Lambeau but you're making a giant big picture point on an underperforming player in just such a circumstance. I think that is beneath you.

He fails the eyeball test game after game after game. If it walks like a duck talks like a duck it's a duck not some pretty peacock like you're selling here. You're asking people to betray themselves and what they've seen implying that you have some secret knowledge because you study the tape. I will give you all the credit in the world for putting together cogent high brow postings but in the end it's about the heart of the real matter and that matter is RR isn't very good and isn't athletic. If he played for ANYONE else you would see him differently as would those here who want to latch to what you're telling them is true against everything they believe.

RR seems to be a fine young man but he's a moderate talent at very best. RR will be fine is right if we're going for a mediocre option that has no speed or athleticism and can't break a tackle. I think we should be shooting just a wee bit higher instead of rationalizing and justifying very very middling results. Stats be darned. He's just not a difference maker and NEVER will be. NEVER and I think that is anything but "fine" and NO WAY...MORE THAN FINE.

EDIT: Barfarn would be the first to say not to use stats, Nerd. EVERYONE who watches football knew that Finley commanded special attention. Richard Rodgers never has...never will. Finley had athleticism...could break tackles. RR has far better hands. If Finley had his hands...wow. RR is a nice safe middling unspectacular TE and fits perfectly with our GM. The same GM that is praised and made into better than he is just like, ironically, now one of his draft picks is. TE is a HUGE need on this team. I truly hope we do something there this offseason.



My apologies for responding too much in this thread but this was a must. It is really maddening when this repeatedly happens here. It is always misinformation twisting the truth to fit an agenda. Richard Rodgers was not supposed to do that at all. Watch the clip of the play...he was WAY behind everyone else due to his lumbering long speed. Here is RR in his own words not the non reality presented above to fit an agenda:

from CBSSports.com:

When Aaron Rodgers launched his Hail Mary pass into the air on the final play of the game against the Lions on Thursday, Richard Rodgers had one job, and that job wasn't to catch the ball.

The Packers tight was actually supposed to box out as many defenders as he could so that wide receiver Davante Adams could make the catch.

"I'm supposed to be boxing out and Davante is supposed to be the jumper," Richard Rodgers said after the game, via NFL.com. "But once I saw it in the air I realized I could get it. So I just went for it."

Compare the highlighted portions the one above to the one below. They are vastly different. It's hard to box people out in the endzone when you're standing at the 10 waiting for a deflection.

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He was instructed to line up at the 10, iirc in case the ball was batted down out of the end zone into the field of play. However he caught the ball high and followed it down, used his height to reach the ball at the high point, made the play.

Compare his stats to Finley's second year.

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nm

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Here we go, stats to the rescue. 🙄 How about comparing the guys covering RR and those that covered JF. You can cover Rodgers with a fucking linebacker, whereas Finley is too big for a corner or safety and way too fast for a linebacker.

Sometimes I really question the acumen of the fans in this place. No defensive coordinator in the league is losing sleep over defending RR.

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That one game against Detroit, he looks like a completely different player.

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