StoicFire
8 years ago
This may not be popular, but I wanted to share it with someone because it is of great importance to me. As I’m writing this it is 8:40 PM on Thursday October 29, 2015. The issue I want to talk about is the reselling of Packer tickets, particularly to make a profit.

I understand that sometimes things come up that prevent ticket holders from attending a game. That is life. I also understand that if one does not have a friend, family member, or coworker to give or sell the tickets to that they may choose to sell said tickets on a certified online vendor like NFL Ticket Exchange. I get it; I really do. All of this was ok with me until I started regularly visiting the popular resale site this week.

This is what the listings for the remaining home games look like as of 8:40 PM tonight:
Vs. Lions Sun, Nov 15 2015: 427 ticket listings offered from $269 to $954 each.
Vs. Bears Thu, Nov 26 2015: 2701 ticket listings offered from $299 to $10000 each
Vs. Cowboys Sun, Dec 13 2015: 1250 ticket listings offered from $223 to $1917 each
Vs. Vikings Sun, Jan 03 2016: 3583 ticket listings offered from $156 to $1037 each

Now to me some of this looks awful right off the bat, but in case not everyone is actually reading into this data let me add some important information. The listings are for anywhere from 1 to 8 tickets each, and after much scanning I believe the most common are definitely 2 and 4 tickets. For simplicity’s sake I will now assume an average of 3 per listing. The Thanksgiving Day game, which I believe most of Packers Nation is really looking forward to, has over 2,700 listings (which multiplying by 3 per listing is) bringing us to over 8,000 tickets for sale. I had to let that sink in for a minute. On Thanksgiving Day over 10% of Lambeau field is for sale. Do Packers fans know this? Do Bears fans know this?
The overwhelming demand of fans to experience this game in person has caused many enterprising individuals to sell away some potentially amazing memories (not to mention possibly home field advantage) for thousands of dollars. A fair number of listings are above $1,000 per ticket!

This bothers me for so many reasons. One is just how inflated these prices are. Following are the season ticket prices at Lambeau:
End zone seats – $80
South end zone, 700 Level – $89
End zone to the 20‐yard line – $92
South end zone, 600 Level – $96
Between the 20-yard lines – $105

Another thing I’m struggling to understand is the impact this sort of thing has on season ticket turnover rates. Our fan base prides itself on consecutive sellouts, and the nationwide desire of fans to attend games. All of this is for good reason, but what if I told you that in the remaining 4 home games (within minutes of trying) I was able to discover multiple instances of the exact same seats being up for sale in at least 2 of the remaining games? I may be taking a bit of a leap here, but it feels like some people are just as interested in being ticket vendors as they are in being ticket holders. That is a tough pill to swallow considering that (according to Ted Thompson via an espn.com article) the season ticket waiting list in Green Bay is sitting at about 115,000 people. If I were on the waiting list I would be appalled.

Now as it turns out I am not on the waiting list, I’m just a guy 9 hours away in southern Indiana. I am however a very passionate Packer fan, and one who wants to be proud of the loyal fan base. I want to believe we are the best fans in all of sports, but I’m having trouble dealing with the cognitive dissonance caused by simultaneously feeling proud and compiling this data.

Maybe there are some issues at hand here that I don’t fully understand, but none of this sits well with me. I don’t want greedy individuals to compromise our esteemed following in order to use their tickets as a second source of income. I don’t want the waiting list to be stagnant because some fans decide to attend fewer games yet remain on the list. I don’t want fans with less in their bank accounts to be unable to attend a game in Lambeau. I concede that I may potentially be overreacting a little bit here, but I feel like this all reflects poorly on a fan base I am damn proud to be a part of.

I could go on at length, but I’d like to know how some other people feel about these issues. What do you guys think?

"the Quarterback can run if he wants to, but with this rocket attached to your body... who would?" -Aaron Rodgers
sschind
8 years ago
I know what you mean but it doesn't really bother me. I'm sure some ST holders do look at it as a money maker. Especially if they are lucky enough to have such a special game as this Thanksgiving night game where they may be able to make their entire season ticket expense back in one fell swoop. If they are not looking to profit at least they are looking to break even and have the money from the games they sell pay for the few games they attend. Some of these people may not even be Packer fans or live in Wisconsin. They may have inherited the tickets from someone who was. Using your numbers I think you can figure 1 season ticket will cost about 1000 bucks (ST holders correct me if I am wrong) some people can't afford that but they don't want to give up their chance to attend a few games a year so they have no choice but to sell the others.

It would be nice if these people would sell to family and friends (who we assume would be Packer fans) rather than sell on national sites where opposing fans might get ahold of them but that is simply not practical for some people. It would be nice if they could implement a policy that ST holders had to use at least a certain number of tickets (for them or their family or friends) or they lose them but that would be impossible, probably even illegal, to enforce. I'm sure there are some ST holders that get their tickets and immediately put every one up for sale.

What bothers me more is people that have large blocks of tickets (I think there is one that has over 300) They were complaining when the PSLs were enacted that they had to take out loans or mortgage their homes in order to keep the tickets. To them I say boo frickin who. Are you using each and every one of those tickets? Hell no, you are selling them and you are making a profit on them so I have no sympathy for you. But I digress.

Going back to your numbers of tickets for those for those specific games for a minute. There are several reasons why there are so many tickets available for those games. For one thing they are late season games with a higher probability for poor weather. Not only do many people not want to sit in below freezing or snowing or raining weather they don't want to travel in it so the late season games have a higher tendency to get dumped. Next, they are all against important opponents. Three divisional games and one against a hated rival. That makes these tickets in high demand thus selling for money . I'm guessing that if the Dec. 13th game were against the Jaguars tickets wouldn't be selling for nearly as much and there may be fewer available. On the other hand if it isn't such a big rivalry game and its cold weather maybe more people sell. All I know is two of the games I've attended at Lambeau field were 2 of the 5 coldest games played there and one was against the Raiders. (the other was the Lions) )'m pretty sure I know why I was able to get those tickets. Then you have the important game factor. The Jan 3rd game may be for the central division title. Its a cold weather game which could be for all the marbles. Non ST holders will pay a pretty penny for something like that. Why not bail and watch the game on your new 70 inch plasma screen TV you got with the money you made selling your tickets last year. Then comes the Thanksgiving game against the Bears. This is probably the one that hurts the most for fans like you and I. I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that this will be one of the most important events to happen at Lambeau field. Maybe not so much the game itself but the event, and believe me it will be an event. This will be a historic night for the Green Bay Packers and indeed all of the NFL. Why would you not want to be there. When we see that many tickets available it really makes us wonder what is wrong with some people.

I'm guessing that ST holders may be able to sell off these 4 games and either make a profit or at least come close to breaking even on what they paid for their entire seasons worth of tickets. Obviously those selling the premium tickets for upwards of 1000 each will do so. It may help, but maybe not, to not think of these as Packers fans selling their tickets and bailing on their team but non Packer fan ST holders cashing in on a windfall.

What I'm sure won't make you feel any better is that this is just one site. If you were just looking at NFL ticket exchange and it bums you out this bad I suggest you stay away from the other ticket sites such as stub hub or ticket master and even Ebay. It will make you wonder if the only reason for all the sell outs in Green Bay are because of all the sellouts with season tickets.

Unfortunately, to your chagrin I am sure, there are lots of people who use their season tickets as a second source of income. However, I think you may have a little bit of an inflated expectation for that fan base when it comes to season tickets. Last years Playoff game bailout should have told you all you needed to know about that.
StoicFire
8 years ago

I know what you mean but it doesn't really bother me. I'm sure some ST holders do look at it as a money maker. Especially if they are lucky enough to have such a special game as this Thanksgiving night game where they may be able to make their entire season ticket expense back in one fell swoop. If they are not looking to profit at least they are looking to break even and have the money from the games they sell pay for the few games they attend. Some of these people may not even be Packer fans or live in Wisconsin. They may have inherited the tickets from someone who was. Using your numbers I think you can figure 1 season ticket will cost about 1000 bucks (ST holders correct me if I am wrong) some people can't afford that but they don't want to give up their chance to attend a few games a year so they have no choice but to sell the others.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



The math says season tickets cost between $640 and $840 depending on which seats they are. I realize that is a significant investment. It doesn't feel like an investment to me though, when you list your two $105 tickets for two consecutive games at $870 and $880 a piece (real example by the way... first row near the 20 yd line). To me this is undoubtedly opportunism.

What bothers me more is people that have large blocks of tickets (I think there is one that has over 300)

Originally Posted by: sschind 



I didn't know this was happening, and I agree with you that it is out of hand and not deserving of sympathy.

Why not bail and watch the game on your new 70 inch plasma screen TV you got with the money you made selling your tickets last year. Then comes the Thanksgiving game against the Bears. This is probably the one that hurts the most for fans like you and I. I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that this will be one of the most important events to happen at Lambeau field. Maybe not so much the game itself but the event, and believe me it will be an event. This will be a historic night for the Green Bay Packers and indeed all of the NFL. Why would you not want to be there. When we see that many tickets available it really makes us wonder what is wrong with some people

Originally Posted by: sschind 



This type of thing bothers me so very much. I don't like the thought of people being out to make that much money off of tickets. Using tickets as a second source of income not only opens up seats for rival fans, but it also puts tickets out of reach for people who don't have much money. Everyone wants to attend a game, but these inflated prices rob many of the opportunity. And that hurts.

Good point about the weather and how it affects traveling to games. I hadn't considered that snowy roads would possibly deter fans from making significant drives to attend games. That seems completely fair. Though it doesn't excuse selling them for a tremendous profit in my eyes. To me that comes off as a major spirit foul (yeah, I know that isn't a real thing).

Also, props for the sentence, "It will make you wonder if the only reason for all the sell outs in Green Bay are because of all the sellouts with season tickets." I'm not sure how I would defend the fan base if an opposing fan had expressed that very sentiment. Obviously I could point to how well we travel, or how passionate and knowledgeable we often are, but ultimately I wouldn't have an answer to the ticket issue.

"the Quarterback can run if he wants to, but with this rocket attached to your body... who would?" -Aaron Rodgers
sschind
8 years ago

The math says season tickets cost between $640 and $840 depending on which seats they are. I realize that is a significant investment. It doesn't feel like an investment to me though, when you list your two $105 tickets for two consecutive games at $870 and $880 a piece (real example by the way... first row near the 20 yd line). To me this is undoubtedly opportunism.



Originally Posted by: StoicFire 



I forgot about the green and gold packages. I was thinking 8 home games and 2 pre season when I said about 1000 bucks. I'm guessing the goal is to eventually have each season ticket consist of 8 regular season games and two pre season games but with 2 different people possibly owning each seat that will take a while.

I'm going to google it and try to find out but if someone wants to take the time to try to explain hoe it works I'd love to hear it.

I do know what you are saying and to some fans it just feels wrong to profit so much from it but I really don't think it will ever change. Last game I went to was free because my cousin had an extra ticket from a package of 8 that she had already paid for but I'll tell you, if it weren't for fans selling their tickets I would not have seen any packer games. It would be great if they were content with face value (I've been lucky and the other games I've been to were available to me at face value) but I can't really say I blame them. If I could sell one ticket and pay for the rest I'd consider it as well. Sorry
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