uffda udfa
9 years ago

There's a difference between reaching for need vs. addressing need at a the appropriate position for where you have a player graded. In other words if Ted had Rollins and a center graded the same, I don't see the issue with taking Rollins.

He still goes bpa, Hundley was.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



So, we didn't NEED a competent backup QB? I would argue we did. You're telling me Ted had Hundley rated below Jake Ryan? I don't think that's the case. I think Ted had Hundley rated way up there and since Hundley wasn't as big of a need as DB, return man, and ILB he didn't take him with the first 4 picks. Once he got to the 5th round he must've saw RIDICULOUS value. It's not like he saw some 4th round prospect falling to the 5th and just had to trade up. He saw a prospect he had rated very high falling WAY down and felt the value was too strong.


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
9 years ago
It is incongruous to assert the GB DL stinks and then argue that TT, who passed on Malcolm Brown [or another DLman], drafts for need.

The reality is: Ted Thompson drafts BAP! The draft savvy fans know, teams don’t rank players 1 to 300 and scratch-off each player drafted prior to their pick leaving the team to pick the guy w/ the lowest #. GMs evaluate draft talent in TIERS. When it’s time to pick, it's often the case that there are several position groups represented in the available talent TIER. Amongst equally talented players the smart GM will establish the BAP by the player's ability to contribute sooner at his position group, or what fans call a position of need.

Remember this major logic flaw: just because 1 event proximately follows another, a causal link is not necessarily established!
uffda udfa
9 years ago

It is incongruous to assert the GB DL stinks and then argue that TT, who passed on Malcolm Brown [or another DLman], drafts for need.

The reality is: Ted Thompson drafts BAP! The draft savvy fans know, teams don’t rank players 1 to 300 and scratch-off each player drafted prior to their pick leaving the team to pick the guy w/ the lowest #. GMs evaluate draft talent in TIERS. When it’s time to pick, it's often the case that there are several position groups represented in the available talent TIER. Amongst equally talented players the smart GM will establish the BAP by the player's ability to contribute sooner at his position group, or what fans call a position of need.

Remember this major logic flaw: just because 1 event proximately follows another, a causal link is not necessarily established!

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Not one bit, although, I wanted ol' Malcolm. We had Raji, Guion and another 1st round bust in Datone and Mike Daniels for DL. I'm sure he was a little gun shy to waste another 1st rounder on a DL after his Harrell and Jones failures.

Who did we have at the other CB position? We didn't have any starter there. Hayward was viewed as a slot guy due to lack of speed. Outside was a question with him from Day 1. So, who was going to play there? It is not incongruous at all. Clearly, Ted Thompson was panicked we had no starter material for the outside spot opposite Sammy. Hyde or Hayward???? He lost House and Williams his former guys who started there.

You're really knocking back the kool aid to be blind enough to think the GM doesn't draft for need. He's done it for years.

So, the guy who won't plug holes with FA, is not drafting for need? Think. Think. Think. If he isn't getting NEEDS met in FA where is he getting them met? THE DRAFT. Where else? UDFA's? He DRAFTS FOR NEED and then turns it over to our staff to try and develop them. Why would you even fool yourself on this issue?
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


musccy
9 years ago
As I've understood drafts, it's similar to what Barfarn described. Teams will rank in groupings, not necessarily strictly 1-250. Maybe a late first round group (or grade), a 10-15th pick grouping, or whatever the case may be.

You're choosing from Randall, Malcom Brown, and TJ Yeldon (obviously a hypothetical) who you all had at a similar grade. Assuming value meets the pick, you can still select at a position that benefits your team the most at that time while still adhering to a BAP philosophy. It's not some automated choice of "we had Randall ranked 28th, he's the highest remaining, so we must pick him."

With that said, I haven't been in a draft room, so just going off what I've read over the years.
uffda udfa
9 years ago

As I've understood drafts, it's similar to what Barfarn described. Teams will rank in groupings, not necessarily strictly 1-250. Maybe a late first round group (or grade), a 10-15th pick grouping, or whatever the case may be.

You're choosing from Randall, Malcom Brown, and TJ Yeldon (obviously a hypothetical) who you all had at a similar grade. Assuming value meets the pick, you can still select at a position that benefits your team the most at that time while still adhering to a BAP philosophy. It's not some automated choice of "we had Randall ranked 28th, he's the highest remaining, so we must pick him."

With that said, I haven't been in a draft room, so just going off what I've read over the years.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



I don't disbelieve that one bit. However, if Hundley is a very highly rated guy they had a 1st or 2nd round grade on you're telling me they had Montgomery and Ryan rated higher? I don't believe that. I believe Hundley was rated higher than Ryan without any question in my mind and most likely higher than Montgomery.
Ted Thompson jumped to move up because the value, in his mind, was outstanding. Hundley was higher rated than Ryan...not the same...but he NEEDED an ILB more in his mind than he did a QB so he picked for NEED, not BPA. He got his real BPA a round later when he traded up to get Hundley.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


musccy
9 years ago
We don't know what any of those guys were graded, though. 31 other teams let Hundley slide like that, so it's certainly possible the Packers didn't have him rated that high, just like other teams apparently didn't. No way we can know, though.

You can also guess someone would slide, Lacy had a "media grade" around 1st round but the packers passed on that need and went Datone, maybe hoping/speculating Ball or Lacy would slide.

uffda udfa
9 years ago
Here's something I'm disappointed in Ted Thompson for not doing... He was one of the guys I had in my draft record for who I would've taken instead of who we actually took.

Why we didn't spend a 6th or 7th on him is baffling to me. For those who love PFF, he was PFF's top rated OL after the 1st preseason game.

https://vine.co/v/ed29ud9evT7 
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
9 years ago

I'm sure he was a little gun shy to waste another 1st rounder on a DL after his Harrell and Jones failures.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



How did you know? I was in the war room; but now that you spilled the beans I can talk about it.

When GB was on the clock, Ted Thompson was catatonic, just looking straight ahead. After 5 minutes Elliot waved his hand in front of TT's eyes and asked if he knew GB was on the clock. Ted Thompson was unresponsive, Elliot whispered, ya gotta make a pick Ted, ahhh, Kiper is suggesting Malcolm Brown. Ted's quivering voice said, I cant, I blew it with Harrell and Tone cant go DL. He then fell on the floor crying, I cant go CB, Lee; cant go safety, mcmIllian; cant go LB, Hawk sucked for a #5 and Elmore, my god I drafted Elmore...OL, Sherrod; WR Koren Robinson and that cheap Taiwan glassman Murphy; RB Green, QB Brohm; TE Williams...[sobbing uncontrollably] They all suck, i suck., i suck, i suck.

Guntkust said to Seale, i heard him say something about Randle, but he might have meant Cobb. Seale said i like Randle; Guntkust said he liked his guy Rollins; they arm wrestled for it and Seale won. Elliot jumped up and said what about my guy, Gunter. Seale won a game of pin the tail on the donkey, so the pick was Randle! We were an ass-hair away from Gunter being our #1 pick.

Now ya know why Ted looked a little tired in the press conference.
yooperfan
9 years ago

How did you know? I was in the war room; but now that you spilled the beans I can talk about it.

When GB was on the clock, Ted Thompson was catatonic, just looking straight ahead. After 5 minutes Elliot waved his hand in front of TT's eyes and asked if he knew GB was on the clock. Ted Thompson was unresponsive, Elliot whispered, ya gotta make a pick Ted, ahhh, Kiper is suggesting Malcolm Brown. Ted's quivering voice said, I cant, I blew it with Harrell and Tone cant go DL. He then fell on the floor crying, I cant go CB, Lee; cant go safety, mcmIllian; cant go LB, Hawk sucked for a #5 and Elmore, my god I drafted Elmore...OL, Sherrod; WR Koren Robinson and that cheap Taiwan glassman Murphy; RB Green, QB Brohm; TE Williams...[sobbing uncontrollably] They all suck, i suck., i suck, i suck.

Guntkust said to Seale, i heard him say something about Randle, but he might have meant Cobb. Seale said i like Randle; Guntkust said he liked his guy Rollins; they arm wrestled for it and Seale won. Elliot jumped up and said what about my guy, Gunter. Seale won a game of pin the tail on the donkey, so the pick was Randle! We were an ass-hair away from Gunter being our #1 pick.

Now ya know why Ted looked a little tired in the press conference.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



At least Thompson was right about one thing in your imaginative scenario.🤣

DoddPower
9 years ago

Here's something I'm disappointed in Ted Thompson for not doing... He was one of the guys I had in my draft record for who I would've taken instead of who we actually took.

Why we didn't spend a 6th or 7th on him is baffling to me. For those who love PFF, he was PFF's top rated OL after the 1st preseason game.

https://vine.co/v/ed29ud9evT7 

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I still don't understand that decision either . . . but from all 32 teams. The risk would have been worth the chance, especially on a loaded team like the Packers. Does anyone actually believe this guy wouldn't show up to compete with the Green Bay Packers and Aaron Rodgers when there is essentially an open competition at left tackle that he could realistically win and compete for a Super Bowl? If it didn't work out, bid deal. Disappointing for such a position of need for the Packers.
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