wpr
  • wpr
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10 years ago

Many years ago the subject of corporal punishment came up in a discussion I was having somewhere and one "expert" said that it was OK to spank your child but you should use your bare open palm and never use a paddle or a belt or anything else. Another "expert" said you should never use your hand but always use something like a paddle.

This is an impossible thing to discuss because the anti-spanking crowd thinks that any discipline of a child that involves hitting is pure child abuse and nothing else. A mother swats her kid once on the behind for misbehaving in a store and right away these people say "she beat her kid. If you support this then you support beating kids" Its all or nothing with so many of them. At least those who post opinions on the matter. Most sane people do not support beating kids or child abuse. However, not all sane people equate a spanking with beating kids or child abuse. It is a case of trying to impose your morality onto someone else.

Most of the spanking crowd realizes that there is a difference between discipline and beating. Personally I do not think a swat or two on the behind is inappropriate for certain repetitive bad behavior. I also think what AP did crossed the line, in fact I think it went way over the line. Not because he used a switch but because of the number of hits he made. IMO it was excessive. I think many of the "spanking is OK" crowd would consider this excessive as well. I would not call it child abuse however. I do not think this makes AP a bad father but I do think that if a 4 year old kid is afraid his father will punch him that is not a healthy relationship.

In a perfect world we would not have to spank our children. Then again in a perfect world our children wouldn't do anything that would require such discipline. I do think that most, in fact perhaps the vast majority of children, can be properly disciplined without spanking. I also think that spanking should never be the first form of discipline. I also think that discipline is much to lax nowadays. There is the conundrum. How do you properly discipline a problem child without resorting to violence. Not every passive form of punishment works on every kid. Timeouts work wonders with some kids others do not respond as well. Ideally children, all people actually, should exhibit good behavior because bad behavior is wrong not because they fear the punishment of the bad behavior. The trick is how do we get them to realize the behavior is wrong.

The NFL is on the hot seat with this one. I think AP will get the full brunt of the new policy (6 games at least) simply because of the timing of it. There is simply no way they can justify anything less in light of the way Goodell handled the Ray Rice case. Even if a lot of people think AP was just disciplining his own child.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



There is no one size fits all method.

The different personalities people have makes any kind of interaction problematic at best. There are the people (kids too) who say go ahead and spank/hit/beat me. Do your worst. As Will Hunting said, "Because F you!" Some kids crumble at a glance or harsh word. My daughter wold get the biggest crocodile tears you ever saw but she tried to push the boundaries a lot more than my son.

I can't remember if I said it in another post, for the most part I stopped needing to spake my kids at a pretty early stage. All they needed to know was that I was more than willing to do so if I felt it was required. I then asked them if they wanted to continue doing what they were doing or if they wanted to behave. Nearly 100% of the time they stopped their antics.

I watched my wife spank them when she was so frustrated and anger and wore out. When we were alone I told her not to do that. Call me and I will take care of the matter. Spanking when you are upset only makes you hit them harder and longer because you are trying to relieve your self of the stress that has been building up. My office is only a few minutes away from the house so I got a few more phone calls.

One time my son ran away from home. He was 5. When I found him I called my wife and told her I had him and then he and I went to McDonald's to talk about the situation. That was one of our first talks about "women and dealing with their emotions". Over 20 years have gone by and he still remembers getting a milk shake for running away from home. I remind him there was more to the story than just that. He smiles.

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Smokey
10 years ago
IMO, highly visible members of society are looked upon to show the rest of society what is and is not acceptable behavior. Yes, we have laws, but peer pressure often trumps those official regulations. If this "respected" celebrity is punished for abusing a child, then perhaps Ma & Pa America will finally realize that striking a child for any reason is not only wrong, but criminal. Children can be disciplined in better ways. Breaking the cycle of my daddy beat me and his daddy beat him and ... is just the right thing to do. It is always harder to unlearn a behavior than it is learn one, but that may just be what will be needed. Hitting a child, a woman, or another man is unacceptable behavior for both men and women.

Commissioner Goodell will be taking on the task of establishing formal rules of behavior for the NFL. In doing so , they will be setting down social norms that will be looked up to by the rest of our society. I don't envy the task.
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Mucky Tundra
10 years ago

“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
Re: plea deal.

I cannot say I am surprised.

One could, I suppose, say that there are levels of child abuse that don't rise to the seriousness of a felony. And, clearly, the legislature/courts of Texas (and my guess is, most states) think so, or they wouldn't separate the offenses into misdemeanors and felonies. But I can't help thinking that if Joe Average Guy were brought into court with photos similar to those people have been circulating, such a nolo contendre plea wouldn't be seriously considered.

That is the problem with having a "justice" system rather than a "legal" system. Justice is this fuzzy idea, and its easier to buy. If its simply the "law" that says "thou shalt not" and "thou does", then its much harder to get a deal in the face of photo evidence that "thou has."

It wouldn't be perfect: judges/prosecutors could still be bribed, for example. But at least it wouldn't depend critically on whether you can afford the best lawyers out there.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago
Wade it is not just the legal system that has different standards for famous or wealthy and the average guy.

I took my Mom to the ER because my brother, the cardiologist, was concerned she may be having a heart attack.

We waited for over an hour before we saw the ER dr. When she got there (And she was busy to be sure.) she was telling my mom and I what she was seeing from the few tests they ran. I interrupted her to tell her my brother wanted to speak to her as well.

She said well I better go get the chart because he will want to know what is on there. I had to wonder why she didn't bring the chart when it was just Mom and I. It was apparent that she didn't remember the info thus needed the chart when she was going to speak with a dr, who I had told her his specialty. She went over the chart and he told her that he really wanted to talk to the resident cardiologist. With in 5 minutes he was in the room examining Mom. A few minutes after that he was talking to my brother.

Without that connection we never would have had the cardiologist come down to the ER. Even the ER dr didn't come in until I had told the duty nurse about my brother wanting to speak to the dr too.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

Wade it is not just the legal system that has different standards for famous or wealthy and the average guy.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Too true.

But I am convinced that a system that calls itself "justice" is more prone to it than one that calls itself "law." The law is an ass, as some Dickensian character put it. But words like "equity" and "fairness" and "justice"? They ask for something very different, something that is *made for* the rich to exploit. When all that is at stake is "did X break the law against doing Y", there's much less short of delay and bribery and other extra-legal things the attorneys can do when the facts of doing Y are right there in "indisputable visual evidence." But as soon as "ensuring justice, etc." is added, their abilities to play games is limited only by their rhetorical abilities and their client's bank balance.

Look at Dickens' on the courts again, in his great masterpiece, Bleak House. Its fictional inheritance case (Jarndyce v. Jarndyce) was a classic case in equity, not law. And that meant that the lawyers could milk the estate's values for generations with pleadings about fairness, justice, and the like (because in equity in the Anglo-American system was there because everyone knew that the law could be an ass, and there were times where "justice" demanded a rule to fit the individual case without regard to its precedental value.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
10 years ago
Recent experience with a mother of a child of mine has me thinking this is more about child support checks than forgiveness.


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Cheesey
10 years ago
I heard he had changed his name.,...originally it was "Adrian Beat-yur-son".
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sschind
10 years ago

IMO, highly visible members of society are looked upon to show the rest of society what is and is not acceptable behavior. Yes, we have laws, but peer pressure often trumps those official regulations. If this "respected" celebrity is punished for abusing a child, then Children can be disciplined in better ways. Breaking the cycle of my daddy beat me and his daddy beat him and ... is just the right thing to do. It is always harder to unlearn a behavior than it is learn one, but that may just be what will be needed. Hitting a child, a woman, or another man is unacceptable behavior for both men and women.

Commissioner Goodell will be taking on the task of establishing formal rules of behavior for the NFL. In doing so , they will be setting down social norms that will be looked up to by the rest of our society. I don't envy the task.

Originally Posted by: Smokey 



Sorry, just read this response. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said you can't discuss this matter rationally. perhaps Ma & Pa America will finally realize that striking a child for any reason is not only wrong, but criminal. There is no other possibility with you. Your way is the right way and the only way. You might as well cover your ears and yell "nah nah nah I can't hear you" You are entitled to your opinions of course but your total lack of respect towards anyone else's opinions precludes any reasonable dialog.

I also think you are overstating the impact of Goodell's decision on society. Athletes are in the public eye of course but not for nearly the number of people we might think. For those who are in tune to these athletes it is often only during the game or at most during the season. Once the off season rolls around, unless the player keeps himself in the news by continuing bad behavior, the majority of people forget about them. Goodell will hand down his decision and people will talk about it for a little while and then they will forget about it until the next football player does something out of order and then everyone will say athletes get special treatment and that if Joe Six Pack did that he would get prison time. Just like they are doing now.
Cheesey
10 years ago
Well, I got spanked, and it didn't scar me for life.
In fact, it showed me that there are consequences to my actions.

If you choose not to spank your child, that's your choice. And I am fine with that.
But again, there's a HUGE difference between spanking and abuse.
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