Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
11 years ago

Ted will definitely snatch a guy or two.

Ted's philosophy is that you can get by on the Oline with "just guys." Stick them in there and then get superstars at the "skill" positions.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Well, I think Ted learned the "'just guys' aren't enough" principle after his first year. Since the Klemm/O'Dwyer experiment when nowhere, he has spent lots of draft choices on the line (as others in the thread have pointed out). He hasn't made OL an exception to his draft-not-FA approach (for which I have been quite critial over the years), but he has pretty much gone away from the "just guy" approach other than that first year.

I think the real problem isn't a lack of attention, but something in the scouting/personnel identification department. Maybe whoever it is that is involved in identifying and ranking and deciding about OL prospects on the team just isn't as good at it as whoever identifies WRs, DBs, positions where TT's team has been more productive draft-wise.

For a draft-heavy strategic approach like Ted Thompson follows, you need to be above the league average in your drafting quality. Not just in drafting "starters", but it drafting "high quality" starters. Everyone drafts a lot of starters. But a lot of those starters are, well, average or worse.

Ted and his team are above average at finding college WRs that will transition to above average in the pros. Unfortunately, they are below average at finding college OL who will do the same.

And if you can't be above average at finding college OL, and you are going to eschew major free agency spending at the positions, then you are going to have to not just draft OL regularly, you have to draft lots of them. (Which is why I always go "OL OL OL" to everyone's annoyance at draft time -- if Ted Thompson wants to get more or better hits with a department that is below average in one respect he either has to change the personnel team or he has to win with numbers.

Ted's been GM now for 9 drafts. On the OL he has drafted how many multi-year quality starters? Sitton everyone agrees on. That's one. Most fans add Bulaga. More than half I imagine would add Lang. Some would include Colledge. Many are still high on Sherrod's "potential." That's somewhere between three and five.

On the other hand, in most years he's tried two OL via the draft, sometimes three. I haven't the time to check all nine drafts, so lets assume an average over the nine years of 2.33 OL draft choices per year, or about 21 over the nine years of his GB drafting. In other words, his success rate lies between 1 in 7 and 1 in 4+. Let's make it 1 in five.

Hitting one in five when you draft two OL a year means that you're adding less than 1/2 a quality starter each year. To get 5 quality starters through the draft is going to take you 13 drafts. On the other hand, if you average draft three OL a year, it takes you 9; drafting 4 a year would still take seven.

To get the five at a rate of 2.33 draftees a year, just for chuckles? It's going to take 11 drafts. In other words, we shouldn't expect TT's draft strategy to get that starting line we want until...2015.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
nerdmann
11 years ago

Were any of the lineman contemplating retirement? Would any lineman he drafted have been the best draft pick in the league since 2005? Didn't think so. Bad example.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Cliffy was on his last legs for years. Rivera lasted like one more year.

Oh yeah, they got rid of Wahle too. C was in flux at that time too, iirc.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
11 years ago

Well, I think Ted learned the "'just guys' aren't enough" principle after his first year. Since the Klemm/O'Dwyer experiment when nowhere, he has spent lots of draft choices on the line (as others in the thread have pointed out). He hasn't made OL an exception to his draft-not-FA approach (for which I have been quite critial over the years), but he has pretty much gone away from the "just guy" approach other than that first year.

I think the real problem isn't a lack of attention, but something in the scouting/personnel identification department. Maybe whoever it is that is involved in identifying and ranking and deciding about OL prospects on the team just isn't as good at it as whoever identifies WRs, DBs, positions where TT's team has been more productive draft-wise.

For a draft-heavy strategic approach like Ted Thompson follows, you need to be above the league average in your drafting quality. Not just in drafting "starters", but it drafting "high quality" starters. Everyone drafts a lot of starters. But a lot of those starters are, well, average or worse.

Ted and his team are above average at finding college WRs that will transition to above average in the pros. Unfortunately, they are below average at finding college OL who will do the same.

And if you can't be above average at finding college OL, and you are going to eschew major free agency spending at the positions, then you are going to have to not just draft OL regularly, you have to draft lots of them. (Which is why I always go "OL OL OL" to everyone's annoyance at draft time -- if Ted Thompson wants to get more or better hits with a department that is below average in one respect he either has to change the personnel team or he has to win with numbers.

Ted's been GM now for 9 drafts. On the OL he has drafted how many multi-year quality starters? Sitton everyone agrees on. That's one. Most fans add Bulaga. More than half I imagine would add Lang. Some would include Colledge. Many are still high on Sherrod's "potential." That's somewhere between three and five.

On the other hand, in most years he's tried two OL via the draft, sometimes three. I haven't the time to check all nine drafts, so lets assume an average over the nine years of 2.33 OL draft choices per year, or about 21 over the nine years of his GB drafting. In other words, his success rate lies between 1 in 7 and 1 in 4+. Let's make it 1 in five.

Hitting one in five when you draft two OL a year means that you're adding less than 1/2 a quality starter each year. To get 5 quality starters through the draft is going to take you 13 drafts. On the other hand, if you average draft three OL a year, it takes you 9; drafting 4 a year would still take seven.

To get the five at a rate of 2.33 draftees a year, just for chuckles? It's going to take 11 drafts. In other words, we shouldn't expect TT's draft strategy to get that starting line we want until...2015.


Originally Posted by: Wade 



For the first few years, Mike wanted Ted to get the "smaller, quicker" linemen. Since he's been able to go out and get the bigger stronger, guys, he's fared much better.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
DakotaT
11 years ago
You boys need to go back and watch the '96 Super Bowl and look at the dog shit we had for an offensive line. I've watch teams like the Chiefs and Vikings have great O-lines and nothing in the trophy case to show for it. One day we will all understand that we cannot possibly fool proof our roster and realize a quarterback with a brain, strong arm, and quick release allows you to get away with a serviceable line. But until that day, we will continue to have these redundant, yet surprisingly entertaining, exchanges of ideas on how to improve our blocking.
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nerdmann
11 years ago

You boys need to go back and watch the '96 Super Bowl and look at the dog sh!t we had for an offensive line. I've watch teams like the Chiefs and Vikings have great O-lines and nothing in the trophy case to show for it. One day we will all understand that we cannot possibly fool proof our roster and realize a quarterback with a brain, strong arm, and quick release allows you to get away with a serviceable line. But until that day, we will continue to have these redundant, yet surprisingly entertaining, exchanges of ideas on how to improve our blocking.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



That's quite true.

Bruce Wilkins was it? Ruettgers couldn't last the whole season. Just didn't have it anymore.

EDIT: Bruce Wilkerson.

For some reason I got him mixed up with the dude who wrote The Cross and the Switchblade.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
steveishere
11 years ago

Cliffy was on his last legs for years. Rivera lasted like one more year.

Oh yeah, they got rid of Wahle too. C was in flux at that time too, iirc.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



C was Wells. He came in and drafted 2 hall of fame calibre players off the bat then used a 2nd and a 3rd on G the next season and already had 2 quality Ts. It's like you are just making shit up in your head that doesn't exist.
play2win
11 years ago
An entire 2nd page of a thread completely devoid of any mention either of Van Roten or Lewis, the actual subjects of the thread. Wow.
yooperfan
11 years ago

An entire 2nd page of a thread completely devoid of any mention either of Van Roten or Lewis, the actual subjects of the thread. Wow.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I guess there's not much to say about either one.

play2win
11 years ago
Van Roten has been completely unimpressive to me this TC and preseason. If I had to pick one I would go with Patrick Lewis, who I feel shows more promise at both OG and C. I believe Lewis will prove to be the more complete player at both positions. He just needs some NFL seasoning.
nerdmann
11 years ago
JaMarcus Webb is available.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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