Rockmolder
12 years ago

As I said earlier, it's just an interesting thought experiment, especially considering how many Packers defensive players currently on the roster seem to be much better suited for a 4-3.

Re: the previous discussion, CM3 would be rushing from a DE/OLB position on obvious passing downs, regardless of whether he was standing or had a hand in the dirt in a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme. The only difference would be is that he would play more of a "rover" role, almost like Charles Woodson has done in the past on 1st and 2nd downs in a 4-3, depending on the situation. And at times, I'm sure he would still line up as a DE in base packages, as well. I wouldn't view that as much of a problem at all, and very well could be a good thing. He already does similar things now, especially against mobile QBs when spying. I'm not sure why some think it would limit his pass rushing opportunities at all, at least with a good coordinator. But as has been said, it's nothing more than something interesting to talk about in a long season, because it's not happening. Hopefully several of these other more prototypical 4-3 can make a better transition to a 3-4 defense next season though. Or better yet, we get more appropriate 3-4 personnel, especially DL and LBs.

Originally Posted by: doddpower 



Some are, yes. On the second part, I know it wasn't aimed at my post, but that's why I made the Von Miller reference.

Anyway, I feel like Clay would be a good fit in a 4-3, as well, but you do have to build him in. He's not as natural a fit as he is in the 3-4, so I wouldn't say that he'd fit as well in both schemes.

Nick Perry looked like more of a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB in college. His build, weigth, his play, everything pointed to him being drafted by a 4-3 team, so yes, I think he'd benefit from a switch to the 4-3.

People tend to say that your 3-4 DEs would be a better fit as 4-3 UTs, but why? I don't see why a guy like Neal or Daniels would benefit from a switch to the 4-3, all that much.

Maybe you could get away with playing Neal at LE, with Perry at RE, since Matthews gives you that extra rusher off the edge, but what are you really doing in that case?

You're playing with the exact same pieces, the exact same way, with the difference being that Perry puts his hand down, Matthews essentially plays the same role, apart from him having to drop in coverage more often, since you don't rush 5 every play, Neal still won't get to the QB all by himself, since he's build like a LE/UT tweener (Aka, 3-4 DE)...

And who do you take off at the MLB/OLB positions? Bishop certainly isn't an OLB. Go back to Hawk playing OLB? Undo all the work at ILB you did with D.J. Smith and put him back at OLB?

When all is said and done, our defense has a lot of players who could function in either defense, but would changing schemes at this point in time really help us? We got spoiled when we switched to the 3-4, putting up some good numbers, because usually a switch like this takes a couple of years to really start paying dividends.

We should just stick with the 3-4. Even though that doesn't have to be with Capers, as far as I'm concerned.
blueleopard
12 years ago
I don't know about a 4-3, but I'd like to see us mix it in a little. We've had Capers for a while now and he's supposed to be a creative defensive mind. Why aren't we running a hybrid? I know our players are smart enough.
Danreb Victorio A Believer of Greg Jennings
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

I don't know about a 4-3, but I'd like to see us mix it in a little. We've had Capers for a while now and he's supposed to be a creative defensive mind. Why aren't we running a hybrid? I know our players are smart enough.

Originally Posted by: blueleopard 



I think the problem is the defensive scheme is too complicated. When Jim Bates was with the Packers, he scaled things down and suddenly the Packers defense was playing very good. When you are spending more time thinking about what you're going to do, it slows you down. The Packers want to stay young, so they should probably try to keep their defense more simplistic. Which in turn would limit the communication issues.
UserPostedImage
Yerko
12 years ago
I play Matthews in my 4-3 scheme on Madden 13 at OLB and he does just fine...

There is your proof.


Aside from the joke, Von Miller is real proof that someone like Matthews can excel in a switch from the 3-4 to 4-3. I will agree that a lot of our players are also suited for the 4-3. Having a defensive line like Perry/Raji/Pickett/Neal with 4-3 back-ups like Wilson, Worthy, and Daniels is nothing to overlook.

How difficult would it be for a team to run a hybrid defense (3-4 and 4-3) or is that unthinkable?

Even though none of this will happen, it is a decent off season discussion...😛
UserPostedImage
Yerko
12 years ago
Offense:
I'd say center is the #1 priority this season. I think we would all be pretty amazed at how much better TJ Lang and Josh Sitton would be with a center capable of pass blocking and run blocking. The presence of a good center would not only help the guards, but in turn help the tackles as well.

A tight end such as Eifert would be nice to have next to Finley. However, I think Ted will stick to what we have in that position with the return of Quarless. Quarless and Finley might make a decent 1-2 tight end, but nothing close to what the Pats have.

I'm still not sold on LT, but I find it annoying to constantly put that up as an offseason need only to have it be a need the next offseason.

I'd like to put runningback as a need but I think the guys we have would excel with a center that can push the man in front of him. If Starks can stay healthy (long shot), the Packers would have a good group of 3. I think Benson is done.

Overall, if the offensive line is fixed...the offense will be fixed. Rodgers won't be hit so much and if he even comes close to having the amount of time that Brady or P. Manning has in the pocket, this offense would be untouchable.

Defense:
Safety is the #1 priority. Woodson had a go and it didn't work out, imo. Would have been nice to see a whole season with him there but with age comes injury. The guys behind Woodson arne't anything to brag about. Maybe M.D. Jennings or Richardson improve with the offseason, but why rely on that?

MLB is going to be a secret need. AJ Hawk played well this season, but he has hit his ceiling and that just isn't good enough for this defense. He doesn't have the nastiness he had at Ohio State. Should the Packers then rely on a converted Brad Jones or two players in Desmond Bishop or DJ Williams who had severe injuries? I don't think that would be a wise move.

Defensive line. Need one more big body to help the rotation of this 3 man front. Worthy is coming off ACL surgery so there is no telling how he will return. I liked what Neal and Daniels had shown this season. Daniels has an offseason on an NFL weight lifting program. This guy will be a hoss for the defensive line next season. One more able body shores this defensive line up nicely.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
12 years ago

I play Matthews in my 4-3 scheme on Madden 13 at OLB and he does just fine...

There is your proof.


Aside from the joke, Von Miller is real proof that someone like Matthews can excel in a switch from the 3-4 to 4-3. I will agree that a lot of our players are also suited for the 4-3. Having a defensive line like Perry/Raji/Pickett/Neal with 4-3 back-ups like Wilson, Worthy, and Daniels is nothing to overlook.

How difficult would it be for a team to run a hybrid defense (3-4 and 4-3) or is that unthinkable?

Even though none of this will happen, it is a decent off season discussion...😛

Originally Posted by: Yerko 




I grew up in the 80's Yerko - I laugh at you spoiled boys who play Madden. 🙂 What's more amusing is the boys in here that need some kind of statistic or sports writer column as PROOF or FACT. These things are as subjective as any of our opnions.

Anyway, if we went to a 4-3, Matthews should go to MLB and be our Brian Urlacher. We'd be stoudt against the run, but would have to blitz to get home on the pass rush.

We'll stay in the 3-4, but what needs to be replaced is playing Raji or Pickett at end. Those boys should just be rotating in and out and anchoring the nose tackle position. Neither players offers anything for pass rush, so let them do what they do and occupy blockers - just keep them fresh.
UserPostedImage
PackFanWithTwins
12 years ago

All this talk about switching to a 4-3 and wasting CM3's talents is actually funny. You people do realize he was a DE in college right? Thats what he was drafted as and he had to learn the 3-4 scheme. I know we won't switch cuz we are in the same type of years we were in with Favre. You know the ones where we get to the playoffs but then get knocked out.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



While they classified what USC ran as a 4-3. If you look at the lineup, they were much closer to a 3-4. Clay played a Standup DE. Which is essentially the same as what he plays today.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
RajiRoar
12 years ago
UPDATE: I added S, and DE to the list.

yes, im slow.

MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
PackerTraxx
12 years ago

I grew up in the 80's Yerko - I laugh at you spoiled boys who play Madden. 🙂 What's more amusing is the boys in here that need some kind of statistic or sports writer column as PROOF or FACT. These things are as subjective as any of our opnions.

Anyway, if we went to a 4-3, Matthews should go to MLB and be our Brian Urlacher. We'd be stoudt against the run, but would have to blitz to get home on the pass rush.

We'll stay in the 3-4, but what needs to be replaced is playing Raji or Pickett at end. Those boys should just be rotating in and out and anchoring the nose tackle position. Neither players offers anything for pass rush, so let them do what they do and occupy blockers - just keep them fresh.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



I agree with you T. It would be great to get a couple of big ends like Margus Hunt and William Gholston so we could keep Pick and Raji where they belong.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
QCHuskerFan
12 years ago

I grew up in the 80's Yerko - I laugh at you spoiled boys who play Madden. 🙂 What's more amusing is the boys in here that need some kind of statistic or sports writer column as PROOF or FACT. These things are as subjective as any of our opnions.

Anyway, if we went to a 4-3, Matthews should go to MLB and be our Brian Urlacher. We'd be stoudt against the run, but would have to blitz to get home on the pass rush.

We'll stay in the 3-4, but what needs to be replaced is playing Raji or Pickett at end. Those boys should just be rotating in and out and anchoring the nose tackle position. Neither players offers anything for pass rush, so let them do what they do and occupy blockers - just keep them fresh.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Jay Cutler gets sexually aroused at the thought of Matthews playing MLB.

I do agree with you regarding Raji/ Pickett. Need another big body also as 2013 is probably Pickett's last year.
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beast (2h) : Yeah, but also some of the wording suggestions Jax only pranked called the QB, not the others... and if he had an open spreadsheet & 3 calls
beast (2h) : Thank goodness he's not leaving the Turtle in the Red Tide
Mucky Tundra (2h) : Cowboys 1st round pick Tyler Booker will indeed be bringing his pet turtle to Dallas with him
Mucky Tundra (2h) : that contained all prospects info and contact
Mucky Tundra (2h) : beast, according the Falcons statement Jax came across it on an ipad. If I had to guess, probably an open spread sheet or something
Zero2Cool (3h) : Simmons put up an emoji with cheese.
beast (3h) : Not sure anyone is interested in Isaiah Simmons... Collin Oliver might of taken his potential slot
beast (3h) : I'm going with Jax Ulbrich is not telling the whole truth... he accidentally came across it? Why would a defensive coordinator have a QB #?
Zero2Cool (4h) : He's not that great, but final piece of the script.\
Zero2Cool (4h) : If we add Isaiah Simmons, book your Super Bowl tickets
Mucky Tundra (4h) : Colts 1st round TE Tyler Warren also got prank called, was that Jax Ulbrich as well?
Zero2Cool (4h) : Jax Ulbrich, Jeff Ulbrich’s son, released an apology for his role in the Shedeur Sanders prank call.
Martha Careful (4h) : apparently he did not participate in practice or play on the east west shrine game nor the NFL combine. The kid was a mediocre spoiled brat
Mucky Tundra (4h) : Yeah that one that was a super wounded duck that Sanders supporters are highlighting to prove a point
Zero2Cool (5h) : Shough is the guy who missed guys at combine isn't he?
beast (5h) : It's not official until I'm dead! I have a chance still! (Not really)
Mucky Tundra (14h) : I could feel my body decomposing in real time when I read that
Mucky Tundra (14h) : @MIKEYSAINRISTIL Tyler Shough will officially be the last person drafted to the NFL born in the 1900’s
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : saw the tweet, he meant the city
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : Was that for the team or the city?
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 3m Draft grade is in: Green Bay gets an A. The people, the city, the venue were all superb. NFL Draft’s next
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matt LaFleur says Jaire Alexander is participating in #Packers offseason program, which has been conducted virtually during this first week
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : ✅ ...
buckeyepackfan (26-Apr) : Check
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matthew Golden cahanged 81 to 22??
TheKanataThrilla (26-Apr) : Sam Howell to Vikings...guess no Aaron
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : 1 round 7 min, with one extra minute if there is a trade. 2nd round 4 minutes, 3rd -3, 2 thereafter IMO
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Agree
dfosterf (26-Apr) : Great idea imo
dfosterf (26-Apr) : 1st round to 7 minutes with one extension
dfosterf (26-Apr) : NFL comissioner wants to shorten the 2st
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : @jalenreagors They’re discussing if Sheduer can go back to college on NFL Network LMFAOOOOO
beast (26-Apr) : Great point Martha
beast (26-Apr) : Buddy Ryan used to say if a candy bar goes missing, there are two to blame, Rex and Rob 🤪 jk 😁
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Bum Phillips used to say there are two ways to get better. Get better players or get players to play better. We have a new DL coach
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Yes. Look at the losses last year. They can win.
beast (26-Apr) : Can Packers win with their current DL?
bboystyle (26-Apr) : waiting for a pass rusher.
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes between picks in the 3rd
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 3rd. Hate this phone
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 4rd
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes in the 4
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 7 minutes between picks in the 2nd round
Martha Careful (25-Apr) : Sorry to bitch, but the headline writers in that section absolutely mislead, or don't know how to read. It is maddening
Martha Careful (25-Apr) : No thanks. Not a dependable guy to be in the right place and run the right route. Dumb as a box of rocks.
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : Losing 2nd round pick for a one year rental, not ideal. Especially a headcase.
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Pickens for Jaire may be interesting. Definitely not sure we want Pickens long term.
dfosterf (25-Apr) : No.Absolutely not
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : NO NO NO NO NO NO!!1 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
dhazer (25-Apr) : scenario: Our main prospects are off the board when our pick comes around, do we just throw a 2nd round pick at Pittsburgh for Pickens
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