Zero2Cool
12 years ago

It was? Adding in the administrative costs, what did it cost again?

$24,000 per car? $45,000 per car? More?

Ahem.

It was about as dumb a boondoggle as there is.

Fortunately, as such things go (see, e.g. "quantitative easing"), it was a small program.

Kevin, Kevin, Kevin. You're such a smart guy in general. I just don't understand how you do not see how stupid His Highness's economic policies are.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Those numbers are invalid and unverified. Watch, I can do that too.

Adding in all costs...

$11,500 per car and contributed to consumers paying less at the gas pump OOOH YOU FORGOT THAT HUH



(i really have no dog in this fight, other than proving some of you are too bias and fail to think of all aspects before slamming a view/perception) 😇
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

Those numbers are invalid and unverified. Watch, I can do that too.

Adding in all costs...

$11,500 per car and contributed to consumers paying less at the gas pump OOOH YOU FORGOT THAT HUH



(i really have no dog in this fight, other than proving some of you are too bias and fail to think of all aspects before slamming a view/perception) 😇

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



1. Average put on a clunker per year: between 10,000 and 25,000. Take the high number.

2. Average MPG (clunker turned in): 15-18 MPG. Take the low number.
Average MPG (new car): 25-30 MPG. Take the high number.

3. Gallons of gas to drive #1 if clunker: 25,000 /15 = 1667 gallons.
Gallons of gas to drive #1 if new car: 25,000/30 = 834 gallons.

4. Average per gallon of gas: $3.25 - $4.00. Take the high number.

#3 x #4 (amount less paid at pump per car): $3,336.

5. Total number of clunkers turned in under program: 700,000.

6. Total number of clunkers that would have been turned in anyway as trade in on new car: 575,000.

7. Total number of "extra" clunkers turned in thanks to Cash for Clunkers program: (#5 - #6): 125,000.

8. Total amount spend by Feds on the program: $3 billion.

9. Cost per car (#8 divided by #7): $24,000.

Secondary source: CNN  . (Original study by Edmunds.com.)

10. Maximum amount received by owner of clunker for turning it in: $4,500.

So, to save a maximum of $3,336 + 4,500 = $7,836, the US Government spent $24,000.

This was a good idea how?

Yes, I am biased against government. I've never denied that. But I'm biased *because* of the evidence I've seen over the years, not despite it. Count the costs precisely, and you find this kind of "return" over and over again.

It isn't surprising since one of every two dollars spent by the US Government is what I call PeterPaul expenditure, or what is technically called "transfer payments," spending that simply takes from one pocket (robs Peter) and puts it in another (pays Paul). Don't believe me? Go to the government's own numbers, bea.gov, and find the figures for total government spending and transfer payments.

Bah.








And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Porforis
12 years ago

1. Average put on a clunker per year: between 10,000 and 25,000. Take the high number.

2. Average MPG (clunker turned in): 15-18 MPG. Take the low number.
Average MPG (new car): 25-30 MPG. Take the high number.

3. Gallons of gas to drive #1 if clunker: 25,000 /15 = 1667 gallons.
Gallons of gas to drive #1 if new car: 25,000/30 = 834 gallons.

4. Average per gallon of gas: $3.25 - $4.00. Take the high number.

#3 x #4 (amount less paid at pump per car): $3,336.

5. Total number of clunkers turned in under program: 700,000.

6. Total number of clunkers that would have been turned in anyway as trade in on new car: 575,000.

7. Total number of "extra" clunkers turned in thanks to Cash for Clunkers program: (#5 - #6): 125,000.

8. Total amount spend by Feds on the program: $3 billion.

9. Cost per car (#8 divided by #7): $24,000.

Secondary source: CNN  . (Original study by Edmunds.com.)

10. Maximum amount received by owner of clunker for turning it in: $4,500.

So, to save a maximum of $3,336 + 4,500 = $7,836, the US Government spent $24,000.

This was a good idea how?

Yes, I am biased against government. I've never denied that. But I'm biased *because* of the evidence I've seen over the years, not despite it. Count the costs precisely, and you find this kind of "return" over and over again.

It isn't surprising since one of every two dollars spent by the US Government is what I call PeterPaul expenditure, or what is technically called "transfer payments," spending that simply takes from one pocket (robs Peter) and puts it in another (pays Paul). Don't believe me? Go to the government's own numbers, bea.gov, and find the figures for total government spending and transfer payments.

Bah

Originally Posted by: Wade 



One flaw in your math: You only take into account a year of gas savings. However, I think it balances out considering the fact that I think the 25k/year mileage figure is quite high, even for a "high" figure. And it doesn't really change your end conclusion, it just weakens the comparison a bit. If you hold onto the car for 10 years and you want to argue that if not for cash for clunkers you wouldn't have gotten rid of the clunker anyways within the next 10 years? Ridiculous argument but that's about the only way you could argue that this was cost-effective.
alharrisdude31
12 years ago
I just heard one from an older member of my family, but its not exactly the most appetizing bar joke I've ever heard....
Anyway here it goes


So a man walks into a bar with a 12" man on his shoulder, the man sits down and orders a beer. The 12" man jumps off his perch and continues to run down the bar knocking down each and every beer, comes back, and jumps back on the man's shoulder. The bartender, obviously enraged, asks the man what this is all about? So the man replies, "sir, I was walking down the beach one day and found a bottle with a genie in it. He told me he would grant me one and only one wish." Ashamed, the man continued "I wished for a twelve inch prick..."
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beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!
wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.
beast (20-Dec) : As of tonight, 3 way tie for 2nd in Pick'em, that battle is interesting!
beast (20-Dec) : Lions vs Vikings could be the main last game as it could determine division winners or #1 vs #2 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Or if KC needs to win for the #1 seed
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Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : The entirety of week 18 being listed as flex is weird
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Matt LaFleur today says unequivocally "Ted Thompson had nothing to do with the drafting of Jordan Love."
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Apparently, the editing is what pieces comments together. That Ted thing ... fake news.
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : LaFleur "opportunity that Ted Thompson thought was too good to pass up"
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Jordan Love pick was Ted Thompson's idea.
Mucky Tundra (19-Dec) : Kyle Shanahan on signing De'Vondre Campbell as a FA last offseason: “We obviously made a mistake.”
packerfanoutwest (19-Dec) : Alexander’s last season with GB
Martha Careful (18-Dec) : if I were a professional athlete, I would probably look to see who the agent is for Kirk Cousins and then use him
beast (18-Dec) : $100 million fully guaranteed Kirk Cousins gets benched for rookie
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : a lower case b
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : The real lie is how beast capitalized his name in his message while it's normally spelled with
packerfanoutwest (18-Dec) : haha that's a lie
beast (17-Dec) : Despite what lies other might tell, Beast didn't hate the Winter Warnings, it felt refreshing to Beast for some reason.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : whiteout uniforms in general are pretty lame and weak. NFL greed at it's worst
Martha Careful (17-Dec) : The Viking uniforms, the whiteout uniforms specifically absolutely suck
beast (17-Dec) : Thanks Zero2Cool, looks a lot better now
beast (17-Dec) : Seems like someone has a crush on me, can't stop talking about me
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : Should be gooder now. The forum default theme went to goofy land.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : What the hell
packerfanoutwest (17-Dec) : yeah beast hates the Winter Warning Unies
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Okay I'm glad to know it's not just something happening to me lol
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Zero, did you copy the Packers uniforms from last night and white out the board?
beast (16-Dec) : Oh crap, is the board going to the Winter Warning Uniforms too?!? It's all white on white right now!
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : WR Odell Beckham Jr is officially a free agent after clearing waivers.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Packers are 6th in sacks.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : RB David Montgomery will undergo season-ending knee surgery.
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Dan Campbell on onside kick with 12 minutes left: In hindsight, wish I didn’t do that
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : They have that whole 12th man thing so ...
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Of the times we've played there, I just can't recall hearing our fans.
wpr (16-Dec) : Well done jdlax. Well done.
wpr (16-Dec) : I think more likely to be Pack fans that live in the area.
wpr (16-Dec) : Pack fans represent. I pointed it out early in the game to my wife. Announcers said Packers travel well.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : That was crazy to hear go pack go in Seattle of all plays. That 12 man thing an all
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : jdlax, good man!
jdlax (16-Dec) : Mucky, there were too many of us there to credit any single one but for sure i was 60% responsible.
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