DE value in a 3 - 4 defense

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

I thought this exchange was kind of funny and I'm interested in seeing what you folks have to say.

You're killing me! Lately, you have been saying how we were one player away from winning the Super Bowl this year because we needed another outside rusher. One player, really? Last year, we expressed our opinion how we missed Cullen Jenkins and things would be different had he been signed. You specifically responded that one player would not make a difference. What gives?

Miriam from Butte, MT wrote:

I’m killing you? You’re killing me. How many times do we have to go through this? The Packers needed one more pass rusher. Jenkins is an end. Ends in a 3-4 are not pass rushers, they’re hold-the-point-of-attack plugs. Whatever they get in the way of sacks is usually because the real rushers, the linebackers, have run the quarterback into the ends’ arms. When are we going to understand the role of the end in a 3-4? Would one more pass rusher have made a difference? Yes. I wrote it over and over late last season. Would one more end have made a difference? No, because ends aren’t pass rushers. I have not misrepresented anything. That’s my opinion and I have represented consistently. If you disagree, fine, but I have been clear and consistent of what I believe is the Packers’ need on defense. And, by the way, when did Jenkins become Reggie White? I know I was in the AFC, but I think I would’ve heard the news.

Vic Ketchman of Packers.com wrote:

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zombieslayer
Registered

12 years ago

Hmm...

How did Cullen Jenkins get his sacks? Or did those sacks just not happen and all my sources have been wrong?

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nerdmann
Premier Member

12 years ago

Hmm...

How did Cullen Jenkins get his sacks? Or did those sacks just not happen and all my sources have been wrong?

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer

Jenkins was an end with pass rushing ability. Vic Ketchman is an idiot.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Packers_Finland
Registered

12 years ago

I don't think we were one 3-4 OLB or one Cullen Jenkins away from Super Bowl last year. Even with the added pass rush I think our secondary would've sucked... but who knows really.

This is a placeholder

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

Hmm...

How did Cullen Jenkins get his sacks? Or did those sacks just not happen and all my sources have been wrong?

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer

I think it's obvious that the likes of Brad Jones, Frank Zombo, etc did a superb job flushing the QB's into Cullen Jenkins' arms. Apparently B.J. Raji isn't able to catch QB's as well as Cullen Jenkins, lol. (Raji filled in Jenkins spot while the other end was filled by others during the 2011 season.)

Stevetarded
Registered

12 years ago

Well saying that "ends aren't pass rushers" is kind of dumb because some (Cullen Jenkins, Justin Smith) are incredible pass rushers but guys like that are extremely rare so if you are looking for a pass rush you have a better chance of finding it by looking elsewhere.

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Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded

I think he was saying that the 3 down linemen are designed for eating blockers for the linebackers in a 3 - 4 system, which is accurate. Dom Capers has said as such and LB Ray Lewis has said the same thing about his DL in his 3 - 4 defense.

What Vic fails to understand is that in 10/11 games, Cullen Jenkins DID get pressure and DID get sacks for the Packers in 2010, regardless of that being his task as an end or not. He got results, results that were desperately lacking last season.

Rios39
Member

12 years ago

A lot of times that is the case for 3-4 DE's. Capers has a tendancy to get the entire front 7 at different points to pass rush when it's a pass rushing down. DE's NT's Linebackers ect. That's why Raji tends to at least try to get more pass rushing attempts than other NT's. Same with Jenkins, it's not often you see 3-4 DE's pile on the sacks.

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lolleren
Member

12 years ago

Without going through the stats, i seem to recall jenkins getting a fair amount of his sacks, pressures, hits from his spot as a inside pass rusher, when we lined up in something similiar to a 4-3, or 2-5. Not from our base 3-4.

I agree with his remark than 3-4 ends are not passrushers, but sometimes you have the ends that can create pressure from other alignments.

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nerdmann
Premier Member

12 years ago

#10

Originally Posted by: lolleren

This is generally true, however Bruce Smith was a 3-4 DE and all he did is record more sacks than anyone in league history. (Since they've been keeping that particular stat.)

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

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Zero2Cool (2h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

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bboystyle (2h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

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bboystyle (2h) : yes due to tie breaker

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bboystyle (2h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

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beast (4h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

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bboystyle (4h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (4h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

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beast (5h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (5h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

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beast (7h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

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packerfanoutwest (9h) : ok I stand corrected

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packerfanoutwest (9h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't

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Zero2Cool (9h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.

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