Zero2Cool
12 years ago
I thought this exchange was kind of funny and I'm interested in seeing what you folks have to say.

You're killing me! Lately, you have been saying how we were one player away from winning the Super Bowl this year because we needed another outside rusher. One player, really? Last year, we expressed our opinion how we missed Cullen Jenkins and things would be different had he been signed. You specifically responded that one player would not make a difference. What gives?

Miriam from Butte, MT wrote:



I’m killing you? You’re killing me. How many times do we have to go through this? The Packers needed one more pass rusher. Jenkins is an end. Ends in a 3-4 are not pass rushers, they’re hold-the-point-of-attack plugs. Whatever they get in the way of sacks is usually because the real rushers, the linebackers, have run the quarterback into the ends’ arms. When are we going to understand the role of the end in a 3-4? Would one more pass rusher have made a difference? Yes. I wrote it over and over late last season. Would one more end have made a difference? No, because ends aren’t pass rushers. I have not misrepresented anything. That’s my opinion and I have represented consistently. If you disagree, fine, but I have been clear and consistent of what I believe is the Packers’ need on defense. And, by the way, when did Jenkins become Reggie White? I know I was in the AFC, but I think I would’ve heard the news.

Vic Ketchman of Packers.com wrote:


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zombieslayer
12 years ago
Hmm...

How did Cullen Jenkins get his sacks? Or did those sacks just not happen and all my sources have been wrong?


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nerdmann
12 years ago

Hmm...

How did Cullen Jenkins get his sacks? Or did those sacks just not happen and all my sources have been wrong?

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



Jenkins was an end with pass rushing ability. Vic Ketchman is an idiot.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Packers_Finland
12 years ago
I don't think we were one 3-4 OLB or one Cullen Jenkins away from Super Bowl last year. Even with the added pass rush I think our secondary would've sucked... but who knows really.
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Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Hmm...

How did Cullen Jenkins get his sacks? Or did those sacks just not happen and all my sources have been wrong?

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



I think it's obvious that the likes of Brad Jones, Frank Zombo, etc did a superb job flushing the QB's into Cullen Jenkins' arms. Apparently B.J. Raji isn't able to catch QB's as well as Cullen Jenkins, lol. (Raji filled in Jenkins spot while the other end was filled by others during the 2011 season.)
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Stevetarded
12 years ago
Well saying that "ends aren't pass rushers" is kind of dumb because some (Cullen Jenkins, Justin Smith) are incredible pass rushers but guys like that are extremely rare so if you are looking for a pass rush you have a better chance of finding it by looking elsewhere.
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Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Well saying that "ends aren't pass rushers" is kind of dumb because some (Cullen Jenkins, Justin Smith) are incredible pass rushers but guys like that are extremely rare so if you are looking for a pass rush you have a better chance of finding it by looking elsewhere.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 



I think he was saying that the 3 down linemen are designed for eating blockers for the linebackers in a 3 - 4 system, which is accurate. Dom Capers has said as such and LB Ray Lewis has said the same thing about his DL in his 3 - 4 defense.

What Vic fails to understand is that in 10/11 games, Cullen Jenkins DID get pressure and DID get sacks for the Packers in 2010, regardless of that being his task as an end or not. He got results, results that were desperately lacking last season.
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Rios39
12 years ago
A lot of times that is the case for 3-4 DE's. Capers has a tendancy to get the entire front 7 at different points to pass rush when it's a pass rushing down. DE's NT's Linebackers ect. That's why Raji tends to at least try to get more pass rushing attempts than other NT's. Same with Jenkins, it's not often you see 3-4 DE's pile on the sacks.
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lolleren
12 years ago
Without going through the stats, i seem to recall jenkins getting a fair amount of his sacks, pressures, hits from his spot as a inside pass rusher, when we lined up in something similiar to a 4-3, or 2-5. Not from our base 3-4.

I agree with his remark than 3-4 ends are not passrushers, but sometimes you have the ends that can create pressure from other alignments.
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nerdmann
12 years ago

Without going through the stats, i seem to recall jenkins getting a fair amount of his sacks, pressures, hits from his spot as a inside pass rusher, when we lined up in something similiar to a 4-3, or 2-5. Not from our base 3-4.

I agree with his remark than 3-4 ends are not passrushers, but sometimes you have the ends that can create pressure from other alignments.

Originally Posted by: lolleren 



This is generally true, however Bruce Smith was a 3-4 DE and all he did is record more sacks than anyone in league history. (Since they've been keeping that particular stat.)
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (9h) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (9h) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (10h) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (10h) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (10h) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (13h) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (13h) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (13h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (16h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (16h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (16h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (16h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (16h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (16h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (16h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (16h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (17h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (18h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (18h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (18h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (18h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (18h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (18h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (19h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (19h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (20h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (20h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (20h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (20h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (21h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (21h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (22h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (22h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (22h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (22h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (22h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (22h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (22h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (22h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (22h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (22h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (22h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (23h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (23h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (23h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (23h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
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