macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago


http://jerseyal.com/GBP/2011/07/19/the-packers-new-evolutionary-chart-from-john-kuhn-to-d-j-williams/ 

One of the little quirks that set the Packers apart from any other team in the league at the moment is the Packers’ extensive use of fullbacks. Where else but Green Bay can a fullback have the fans screaming his name every time he gets on the field? Last year, the Packers turned some confused heads by keeping three fullbacks on the roster when some teams only keep one, that’s something straight from the Vince Lombardi and Jim Taylor era.

The Packers use the fullback position as something of a jack-of-all-trades player; for instance, John Kuhn alone played the role of blocking fullback, wing-T fullback, short yardage back, halfback, blitz pickup 3rd down back, personal protector on punts, kickoff jammer and to add to that he was a threat on the red zone as a receiver.

Unfortunately, in the Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers era, this plan backfired a little. In essence, the 3rd fullback stole a roster slot from the halfbacks, and when starter Ryan Grant went on IR after the season opener, the Packers were left scrambling for depth behind Brandon Jackson. The Packers managed to hide the issue with a late surge from James Starks and consistent short yardage from fullback turned folk hero John Kuhn. But the problem still remained, the Packers running game was never the same.

But lessoned learned, and probably in a way that many might not have considered; in the 2011 NFL draft, the Packers selected tight end DJ Williams from Arkansas in the 5th round and Ryan Taylor from UNC in the 7th round.

DJ Williams is an interesting prospect because other than the fact that he lacks the prototypical height and size of an elite tight end, he has the skills to be very successful in the NFL and save for his height probably would have been drafted considerably higher. The winner of the Mackey Award and Disney Spirit Award in 2010 left the collegiate ranks as the leader in catches and receiving yards for tight ends and translates best in the NFL as a “move” tight end or H-back in a west coast offense.

Ryan Taylor, while not as accomplished a receiver as Williams is also a H-back; he set a single-season record at UNC for a tight end with 36 receptions and is also known for his special teams prowess as a former linebacker and special teams captain while at UNC.

So what does this have to do with the Packers fullbacks? Simply put DJ Williams and Ryan Taylor are the new John Kuhn’s for the Packers.

With the evolution of the NFL to be a passing first league, having players who can catch the ball is now of the utter most importance. Before, running backs could often get away with having suspect hands since they were almost never thrown at. But now running backs are expected to be able to run the majority of short and sometimes even intermediate routes.

When you take a look at the Packers fullbacks, really the only player that the coaches seem to trust with catching the ball is John Kuhn. And his catching ability is what lead to more time on the field than the rest of the fullbacks, which lead to more rushing attempts (if for no other reason than to hide his role on the offense), which lead to the Packers discovering he was a pretty good short yardage back, which then lead to Kuhn becoming a folk hero for Packers fans and a staple on the offense.

On the other side, one of the biggest knocks on fellow fullback Quinn Johnson was his ability to catch the ball. Johnson was drafted as an old school lead blocker and it quickly became apparent that lead blocking isn’t really that important in the modern game. Attempts to throw him the ball usually ended poorly and to date Johnson has caught 5 balls for 34 yards, not exactly a pass catching threat. Without the ability to catch the ball, defenses were able to key in on Johnson; anytime he was in the game it was likely that the Packers were going to try to run the ball.

This is where Williams in particular come into play. Williams is a prototypical H-back, which is a hybrid fullback/tight end position and as such expect to see Williams do many the same things as Kuhn. Expect to see Williams play extensively on special teams and be a third down blocker (either inline or as a third down back, as tight ends with the Packers often do). But what Williams brings that Kuhn doesn’t is his ability to run the complete short and intermediate route tree and catch the ball. While Kuhn might have had the best hands among the fullbacks, that pales in comparison to a legitimate tight end like Williams.In terms of the roster, it’s highly unlikely that the Packers will retain 3 fullbacks on the roster; 3rd round selection Alex Green is a near lock to make the 53 man roster solely based on his draft status and its highly likely that a fullback (most likely Quinn Johnson) is going to be cut to make room for Green. But the Packers also ave drafted two tight ends but only opened one spot (Donald Lee). As Ryan Taylor was drafted mainly for special teams its also conceivable that Korey Hall will not be resigned to make room for Taylor.

While it’s unlikely that DJ Williams or Ryan Taylor will ever entirely replace John Kuhn (especially the folk hero part), Williams and Taylor do represent the evolution of the fullback position to a more “H-back” position for the Packers.

wrote:

13 years ago
Versatility is key to making the roster.

Like almost every roster spot on the Packers there is competition.

I don't care who wins as it will be the best result for the team.

I just am getting used to seeing names on the final cut list of players I like.
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beast
13 years ago
I disagree with a lot of little things in this article.

Last year was the second year they kept 3 FBs and I didn't hear near the out cry or confusion as the first time they did it. I think I might of heard just as much why are they keeping all 3 TE back-ups in Lee, Quarless and Crabtree.

For the plan to backfire wouldn't that mean the 3rd RB (which they cut) would of had made a difference? ... Quinn Porter who was the 3rd RB didn't seem to play a game and is now with the Browns. The team knew Kuhn back-ground as a RB... he was the 3rd RB and also a FB.

I understand that a good H-back can replace and give more options than a normal FB but Williams and Taylor are still projects and need to fix up their blocking because they can be considered good H-backs. Havner was tried as an H-back and could never get the blocking down (which is why I think he was cut).

Korey Hall is a very good at catching and better than Kuhn IMO... I think the real reason Kuhn was on the filed more was because Hall isn't good at power blocks (alright he's horrible at them) nor does he run with the ball, plus he was injured some. And because Johnson is a one trick pony being really good at blocking between the tackles but not so good at everything else.

Didn't the Packers already know he was a pretty good short yardage back? They used him last year in that type of role a couple of times.

I do expect to see them work on H-back and be used like Donald Lee used to be in a H-back role but only if they get the blocking down which they might not get in their rookie years. Usually you don't see TEs doing the H-back stuff in their first year with the Packers... Quarless and Crabtree got some but it was very basic/limited h-back stuff not like the stuff Lee was doing where he had to know the blocking in front of him and watch and break down the defense.


I'm thinking the FBs get resigned (if Hall is willing to take minimum) and they let them compete and they take the top 2 FBs.

I'm thinking 3 RBs, 2 FB, 2 QBs, 9 OL, 4 TEs, 4 WRs with a swing spot... most likely going to the WR position (Swain?) but if another position steps up could go else where. Also I think they kept 26 O, 24 D and 3 ST last year... so if they take a position from D again they could be two swing spots but I think the LB depth might be better this year so they'll keep that on D.
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Zero2Cool (21m) : The only team I know is Texas from that. Who are the other three?
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Notre Lame vs Pedo St tonight and the Luckeyes vs Texas tomorrow
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Stud
Zero2Cool (3h) : E. Cooper. Rookie of Month. Defense.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : @AaronNagler · 2m Both Jordan Love and Malik Willis were Limited participants at Packers practice today.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson didn't make it until 2020. Ring 2023. 🤷 Personally, he should have been in years prior to Hall.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : HUMP DAY
beast (8-Jan) : Guys that have a good shot at making the NFL Hall of Fame usually get into their teams pretty fast
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, but is Kampman and the others in the NFL Hall of Fame?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson was Hall of Fame, 2020. Should haev been in Ring a year later, not three years.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I could be wrong there though
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Guys like Kampman, Tim Harris, Al Harris, etc all over 15 years. Hall of Fame is 5 year wait
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I guess I see players in Packers Hall come way later
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, usually teams hall of fames are a much lower bar than the NFL
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : is it uncommon for Hall before Ring?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : S Xavier McKinney named first-team All-Pro by NFLPA
beast (8-Jan) : I missed it, sorry, but he got into the NFL Hall of Fame years before that
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Jones took his sweet ole time!
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Yeah, he's in the ring of honor, just saw video and his name is up there
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Didn't they have a thing in 2023 for Jimmy's ring of honor? I swear I saw it
beast (8-Jan) : Though if they're legitimately trying to re-sign MM, then it makes sense.
beast (8-Jan) : Jerry Jones still hasn't put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor, but he's in the NFL's Hall of Fame, Jones is petty
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : Unless the Cowboys are planning an extension, seems kinda petty
beast (8-Jan) : Cowboys denied Bears request
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : From what I'm reading, MM is under contract through the 14th of January; after that he's free game
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : McCarthy let go or not extended??
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Chicago Bears have asked the Dallas Cowboys permission to interview Mike McCarthy for head coaching vacancy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : The winners page that is
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I was not hoping for that. It messes up the page lol
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats beast on 2024 !
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats porky on winning 2023 pick'em! (oops sorry)
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Packers have $60M+ of 2025 cap space on paper TODAY.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Missed FG into a Lions TD; that'll do pig, that'll do
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : That might be it for the Vikings
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Oh so the refs do know what intentional grounding is
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : what the hell was that Goff?! Not much pressure and he just air mails it to Harrison
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : They really need to to get rid of the auto first down for illegal contact
Martha Careful (6-Jan) : watching the Vikings and Lions it's understandable why they swept the Packers. So much better product
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Even when GB got pressure he was throwing darts; vs no pressure on that last pass he just air mails an open guy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : didn't have guys in his face ... pressure makes difference
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Where was this Darnold vs GB?
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : BALL DON'T LIE
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : how was that not a safety? Goff throws it at an offensive lineman
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Zero, I thought that was a given! ;)
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Zero I looked through earlier and noticed the same thing. Bonkers year. I just wonder if beast put any money on games
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I'm hoping for BLOODBATH. Pummel one another.
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : 8 people in pick'em would have won any year with their total lol
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