macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago


http://jerseyal.com/GBP/2011/07/19/the-packers-new-evolutionary-chart-from-john-kuhn-to-d-j-williams/ 

One of the little quirks that set the Packers apart from any other team in the league at the moment is the Packers’ extensive use of fullbacks. Where else but Green Bay can a fullback have the fans screaming his name every time he gets on the field? Last year, the Packers turned some confused heads by keeping three fullbacks on the roster when some teams only keep one, that’s something straight from the Vince Lombardi and Jim Taylor era.

The Packers use the fullback position as something of a jack-of-all-trades player; for instance, John Kuhn alone played the role of blocking fullback, wing-T fullback, short yardage back, halfback, blitz pickup 3rd down back, personal protector on punts, kickoff jammer and to add to that he was a threat on the red zone as a receiver.

Unfortunately, in the Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers era, this plan backfired a little. In essence, the 3rd fullback stole a roster slot from the halfbacks, and when starter Ryan Grant went on IR after the season opener, the Packers were left scrambling for depth behind Brandon Jackson. The Packers managed to hide the issue with a late surge from James Starks and consistent short yardage from fullback turned folk hero John Kuhn. But the problem still remained, the Packers running game was never the same.

But lessoned learned, and probably in a way that many might not have considered; in the 2011 NFL draft, the Packers selected tight end DJ Williams from Arkansas in the 5th round and Ryan Taylor from UNC in the 7th round.

DJ Williams is an interesting prospect because other than the fact that he lacks the prototypical height and size of an elite tight end, he has the skills to be very successful in the NFL and save for his height probably would have been drafted considerably higher. The winner of the Mackey Award and Disney Spirit Award in 2010 left the collegiate ranks as the leader in catches and receiving yards for tight ends and translates best in the NFL as a “move” tight end or H-back in a west coast offense.

Ryan Taylor, while not as accomplished a receiver as Williams is also a H-back; he set a single-season record at UNC for a tight end with 36 receptions and is also known for his special teams prowess as a former linebacker and special teams captain while at UNC.

So what does this have to do with the Packers fullbacks? Simply put DJ Williams and Ryan Taylor are the new John Kuhn’s for the Packers.

With the evolution of the NFL to be a passing first league, having players who can catch the ball is now of the utter most importance. Before, running backs could often get away with having suspect hands since they were almost never thrown at. But now running backs are expected to be able to run the majority of short and sometimes even intermediate routes.

When you take a look at the Packers fullbacks, really the only player that the coaches seem to trust with catching the ball is John Kuhn. And his catching ability is what lead to more time on the field than the rest of the fullbacks, which lead to more rushing attempts (if for no other reason than to hide his role on the offense), which lead to the Packers discovering he was a pretty good short yardage back, which then lead to Kuhn becoming a folk hero for Packers fans and a staple on the offense.

On the other side, one of the biggest knocks on fellow fullback Quinn Johnson was his ability to catch the ball. Johnson was drafted as an old school lead blocker and it quickly became apparent that lead blocking isn’t really that important in the modern game. Attempts to throw him the ball usually ended poorly and to date Johnson has caught 5 balls for 34 yards, not exactly a pass catching threat. Without the ability to catch the ball, defenses were able to key in on Johnson; anytime he was in the game it was likely that the Packers were going to try to run the ball.

This is where Williams in particular come into play. Williams is a prototypical H-back, which is a hybrid fullback/tight end position and as such expect to see Williams do many the same things as Kuhn. Expect to see Williams play extensively on special teams and be a third down blocker (either inline or as a third down back, as tight ends with the Packers often do). But what Williams brings that Kuhn doesn’t is his ability to run the complete short and intermediate route tree and catch the ball. While Kuhn might have had the best hands among the fullbacks, that pales in comparison to a legitimate tight end like Williams.In terms of the roster, it’s highly unlikely that the Packers will retain 3 fullbacks on the roster; 3rd round selection Alex Green is a near lock to make the 53 man roster solely based on his draft status and its highly likely that a fullback (most likely Quinn Johnson) is going to be cut to make room for Green. But the Packers also ave drafted two tight ends but only opened one spot (Donald Lee). As Ryan Taylor was drafted mainly for special teams its also conceivable that Korey Hall will not be resigned to make room for Taylor.

While it’s unlikely that DJ Williams or Ryan Taylor will ever entirely replace John Kuhn (especially the folk hero part), Williams and Taylor do represent the evolution of the fullback position to a more “H-back” position for the Packers.

wrote:

13 years ago
Versatility is key to making the roster.

Like almost every roster spot on the Packers there is competition.

I don't care who wins as it will be the best result for the team.

I just am getting used to seeing names on the final cut list of players I like.
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beast
13 years ago
I disagree with a lot of little things in this article.

Last year was the second year they kept 3 FBs and I didn't hear near the out cry or confusion as the first time they did it. I think I might of heard just as much why are they keeping all 3 TE back-ups in Lee, Quarless and Crabtree.

For the plan to backfire wouldn't that mean the 3rd RB (which they cut) would of had made a difference? ... Quinn Porter who was the 3rd RB didn't seem to play a game and is now with the Browns. The team knew Kuhn back-ground as a RB... he was the 3rd RB and also a FB.

I understand that a good H-back can replace and give more options than a normal FB but Williams and Taylor are still projects and need to fix up their blocking because they can be considered good H-backs. Havner was tried as an H-back and could never get the blocking down (which is why I think he was cut).

Korey Hall is a very good at catching and better than Kuhn IMO... I think the real reason Kuhn was on the filed more was because Hall isn't good at power blocks (alright he's horrible at them) nor does he run with the ball, plus he was injured some. And because Johnson is a one trick pony being really good at blocking between the tackles but not so good at everything else.

Didn't the Packers already know he was a pretty good short yardage back? They used him last year in that type of role a couple of times.

I do expect to see them work on H-back and be used like Donald Lee used to be in a H-back role but only if they get the blocking down which they might not get in their rookie years. Usually you don't see TEs doing the H-back stuff in their first year with the Packers... Quarless and Crabtree got some but it was very basic/limited h-back stuff not like the stuff Lee was doing where he had to know the blocking in front of him and watch and break down the defense.


I'm thinking the FBs get resigned (if Hall is willing to take minimum) and they let them compete and they take the top 2 FBs.

I'm thinking 3 RBs, 2 FB, 2 QBs, 9 OL, 4 TEs, 4 WRs with a swing spot... most likely going to the WR position (Swain?) but if another position steps up could go else where. Also I think they kept 26 O, 24 D and 3 ST last year... so if they take a position from D again they could be two swing spots but I think the LB depth might be better this year so they'll keep that on D.
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Zero2Cool (4h) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11h) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (17h) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (18h) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
Martha Careful (10-Feb) : I cant help but feel good about how well the Packers D played in Philly during the playoffs
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