adroge
  • adroge
  • Registered Topic Starter
13 years ago
Everybody knows Clay Matthews is a freak. The junior linebacker is quickly becoming one of the nfl's most impact defenders. However, when discussing the packers outside linebackers the conversation quickly moves to the other players on the roster. None of them standout and the lack of a big time player opposite Matthews is one of the biggest conscerns among the packers fans and writers. I am already anticipating the shouts and articles begging Ted Thompson to draft a big time linebacker in next years draft. So let's discuss the topic with a little more attention to detail.

Over the past two seasons the packers have totaled 16.5 sacks opposite of Clay Matthews. 8.5 of those sacks in 09 and 8 in 2010. For the sake of comparison Ray Edwards also totaled 16.5 sacks in the past two seasons. In fact the only secondary linebacker to record more than 6 sacks last season was Woodley with 10. In 2010 the packers secondary linebacks would have ranked 2nd in the league behind only Woodley (Feel free to check the stats, I didn't really want to spend to much time digging). The overall point is during the past two seasons the packers outside linebackers have been very productive. In fact they've been so productive that only a Woodley type pass rusher would be an actual improvment over what they have. Having tandem probowl ends or linebackers is extremely rare. Finding these players in draft is difficult to say the least. In total the packers outside linebackers actually had one more sack than Woodley and Harrison combined (21.5 to 20.5). That's not to bad if you ask me.

Not only do the packers other outside linebackers have talent, they are extremely well coached. So instead of hoping for the next hyped talent coming out of college, get geared up for a great training camp battle. And look foward to what will probabley be another good year for one of the nfl's most productive overall linbacking units.
Greg C.
13 years ago
He makes a good point. The ROLB position has been very productive sack-wise. I will also add that those players haven't been a serious liability against the run. I would still love to see a blue chip player opposite Matthews, but it's not absolutely necessary.

One thing that will be different this year, probably, is that Cullen Jenkins will be gone. The ROLB position has benefited statistically because of the attention that Jenkins has gotten from blockers. If Neal or someone else is not able to fill Jenkins' shoes, ROLB may look like more of a weakness than it has been the past couple of years.
blank
Stevetarded
13 years ago
Here is an interesting article from profootballfocus that I found. It's a little subjective but it still looks pretty fair.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/ 

This was as of November so it isn't the whole season. It had Clay ranked 4th in LBs in productivity which is pressures/pass rush. Cullen Jenkins was 9th. At the bottom it has the worst and Zombo was 2nd worst and Brad Jones was 9th worst. Some interesting things that stand out to me is Zombo and Jones had more combined rushes at this point than Clay, while that's not too surprising because Clay was missing some snaps because of injury it shows me that our other LBs do get to rush the passer a lot (so raw numbers like "such and such had 4 sacks" may not be as meaningful).

As far as Zombo is concerned this doesn't bother me too much because he was a rookie converting from DE. I think Zombo will win the competition and start the season as the other OLB and I'm excited to see if he has improved. By no means do I expect everyone out there to be Clay Matthews but OLB is definitely a position from last season that can be improved upon.
blank
Yerko
13 years ago
Frank Zombo vs. Brad Jones vs. Erik Walden vs. Brady Poppinga vs. Ricky Elmore

All fighting for the starting ROLB position. Should be a good battle, but I do hope to see Zombo come out on top after training camp. With his first year transition from defensive end to OLB, he did exceptionally well. He could work on his pass protection which should be a level up from last year (assuming he is working on that) and he already has the pass rushing skills of a defensive lineman.

The other name I am really interested to see coming out of this battle is Ricky Elmore. Doubt he gets a starting gig this season but interested to see how he evolves into an OLB from defensive end. He is already training with Matthews II and will be able to learn from one of the best in Matthews III for an entire season and off-season.
UserPostedImage
Greg C.
13 years ago

Here is an interesting article from profootballfocus that I found. It's a little subjective but it still looks pretty fair.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/ 

This was as of November so it isn't the whole season. It had Clay ranked 4th in LBs in productivity which is pressures/pass rush. Cullen Jenkins was 9th. At the bottom it has the worst and Zombo was 2nd worst and Brad Jones was 9th worst. Some interesting things that stand out to me is Zombo and Jones had more combined rushes at this point than Clay, while that's not too surprising because Clay was missing some snaps because of injury it shows me that our other LBs do get to rush the passer a lot (so raw numbers like "such and such had 4 sacks" may not be as meaningful).

As far as Zombo is concerned this doesn't bother me too much because he was a rookie converting from DE. I think Zombo will win the competition and start the season as the other OLB and I'm excited to see if he has improved. By no means do I expect everyone out there to be Clay Matthews but OLB is definitely a position from last season that can be improved upon.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 



Interesting article. It does sound like a fair way to assess pass rushing, and Zombo and Brad Jones were both in the bottom 10 among OLBs. The article is from the middle of last season. I wonder if Zombo improved after that. Probably not, because he was hurt a lot. I still feel good about where he's at heading into next season, though. I don't feel as good about Jones, with his injuries and unimpressive play. I don't think Poppinga will be in the mix. It's probably a bad sign if he is.
blank
porky88
13 years ago
No matter how you slice it, the Packers don't have a consistent pass rush LB opposite of Clay Matthews. Frank Zombo is a high motor and intense guy, but he's not a dynamic pass rusher. I like Zombo and I think there is more upside to his game than many give him credit for having. However, at this point, his pressure tends to come because of excellent coverage down the field. In other words, he's not creating any pressure on his own as Matthews, Cullen Jenkins, and B.J. Raji have.
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
Frank Zombo is better than Clay Matthews III. The stats will back me up!!


(waits for porky to tear me apart ... lol)
UserPostedImage
adroge
  • adroge
  • Registered Topic Starter
13 years ago
Zombo got way better towards the end of the season. Also remember that Jones switched from lolb (where he was pretty productive in 09) to rolb and got hurt in camp, leaving him no time to adjust. Jones dealt with injuries the whole time before eventually going on IR. Difficlut circumstances to expect great production.

Remember also that it's difficult to really know how Capers is using a particular passrusher on a given play. These guys don't get a free try to get to the quarterback on every play. They have to push the pocket, maintain lanes, and take up blockers to open up blitizing lanes. It's very likely that Matthews and Jenkins get the nod to attack much more often than the others. Zombo got very good at pushing the pocket and getting push on both run and pass plays. Capers knows how to use his players to best fit their skills and give him the most effective overall defense. When Walden had his great performance against the bears, Capers pulled him off the line scrimmage and allowed him to use his athletisism. Walden was a weakness at the point of attack, but Capers learned how to better utilize Walden even though Walden hadn't been with the packers very long. I remember Kevin Greene getting pretty upset when the media was calling Zombo "just a guy". Greene explained Zombo was doing his job exaclty as the packers intended him to.

The packers were very productive at getting pressure on the quarterback the last season in a half. They were productive even when Jenkins was out. I'm confident Capers and Greene will once again find a way to get production out of this linebacking unit.

But don't sell the linebackers short of talent either. Jones,Zombo, and Walden all have their upside. Elmore could develope as well. The packers seem very high on Zombo. Zombo was much more productive in his rookie year than Kampman was in his first three years. Even Woodley only had 4 sacks in his rookie year. To many people judge players based on what they've done. You have to understand players need time to develope. It doesn't mean it's a sure thing to happen, but odds are one of those guys will turn into a quality player. As for know, Capers and Greene should continue to get good production out of the group while they develope.

porky88
13 years ago

Remember also that it's difficult to really know how Capers is using a particular passrusher on a given play. These guys don't get a free try to get to the quarterback on every play. They have to push the pocket, maintain lanes, and take up blockers to open up blitizing lanes. It's very likely that Matthews and Jenkins get the nod to attack much more often than the others. Zombo got very good at pushing the pocket and getting push on both run and pass plays. Capers knows how to use his players to best fit their skills and give him the most effective overall defense. When Walden had his great performance against the bears, Capers pulled him off the line scrimmage and allowed him to use his athletisism. Walden was a weakness at the point of attack, but Capers learned how to better utilize Walden even though Walden hadn't been with the packers very long. I remember Kevin Greene getting pretty upset when the media was calling Zombo "just a guy". Greene explained Zombo was doing his job exaclty as the packers intended him to.

Originally Posted by: adroge 


This is the beauty of Dom Capers and why he is every bit as valuable to the organization as anyone right now. You are absolutely right. Capers can use a diverse amount of creativity in order to create pressure. He did it last year, which is why I believe most people suspect the Packers are fine without a LaMarr Woodley like compliment opposite of Matthews.

However, if Matthews goes down, the Packers are going to be in a great deal of trouble. Of course, you can say that about any valuable commodity in football, but I would point toward the Miami game as an example of Matthews' value. The Packers did not sack Chad Henne one time. He had all day to find Brandon Marshall down the field often in that game. Frankly, a QB his caliber shouldn’t have been as successful against a defense the caliber of the Packers’.

The problem opposite of Matthews isn't that they don't have a guy or guys that can fill the role. The problem is they don't have anyone who can create. Capers has to scheme pressure for a guy like Zombo. He doesn't for Matthews and Dick Lebeau doesn't for his duo. With Matthews in place, Capers is able to create more opportunities for other players, especially Walden or Zombo.

Basically, I wouldn’t discount Zombo or anyone playing a role opposite of Matthews. However, if Matthews goes down for an extended period, they just simply don’t have the capabilities of picking up enough slack.
nerdmann
13 years ago
Bottom line is that we got some guys who can get it done, but we don't have a guy the calibur of Clay Matthews on the right side. That's ok. It would be nice, and it's maybe something we can look for in the draft next year. But we can still win with these guys.
And who knows, any one of them might take a step up this year. KGB wasn't anything his first year.
Here's another issue: Yeah, Cullin Jenkins was a force for us. But don't forget Woody's impact as a pass rusher.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Fan Shout
dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
wpr (10-Jun) : That's awesome Martha.
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : How's the ayahuasca tea he makes, Martha?
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : Turns out he like older women
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : I wasn't supposed to say anything, but yes the word is out and we are happy 😂😂😂
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : I might be late on this but Aaron Rodgers is now married
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : Well he can always ask his brother for pointers
Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : Bo Melton taking some reps at CB as well as WR
Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : key transactions coming today at 3pm that will consume more cap in 2025
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jaire played in just 34 of a possible 68 games since the start of the 2021 season
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : reported, but not expected to practice
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jenkins has REPORTED for mandatory camp
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : I really thought he'd play for Packers.
buckeyepackfan (9-Jun) : Packers releasing Jaire Alexander.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : (Context: he wants his defense to create turnovers)
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : Giants DC Shane Bowen tells players to “be a damn pirate."
dfosterf (6-Jun) : Semper fi !
Cheesey (6-Jun) : This is why I have so much respect for those that have gone through battles
Cheesey (6-Jun) : I can't even imagine what that would have been like
wpr (6-Jun) : "Come on, you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever?"
wpr (6-Jun) : Facing a line of machine guns 2 time medal of Honor recipient, First Sergeant Dan Daly told his men,
wpr (6-Jun) : Another detachment went into the Belleau Wood.
wpr (6-Jun) : On the 6th the Marines took Hill 142 but suffered terrible losses.
wpr (6-Jun) : It’s time to remember dfoster’s Marine brothers in Belleau Wood. The battle went on from June 1-26. Nearly 10,000 casualties.
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett have signed with the PACK
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : he won't be wearing #12, maybe he will wear number two
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : He will fail this season, should have retired
Mucky Tundra (5-Jun) : Thus the cycle of Hall of Fame Packer QBs going to the Jets and then the Vikings is broken
bboystyle (5-Jun) : Rodgers to steelers on 1 year contract
Zero2Cool (5-Jun) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.
Martha Careful (5-Jun) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
dfosterf (4-Jun) : We old Martha.
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : *front four
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome
dfosterf (4-Jun) : *directions*
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Just don't ask him for driving direct
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Probably his toe. Pretty much a great center. Toe injuries are brutal to bigen
Mucky Tundra (2-Jun) : Lions All-Pro C Frank Ragnow retires
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5h / Random Babble / Martha Careful

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

11-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

10-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

6-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

27-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.