adroge
  • adroge
  • Registered Topic Starter
13 years ago
Everybody knows Clay Matthews is a freak. The junior linebacker is quickly becoming one of the nfl's most impact defenders. However, when discussing the packers outside linebackers the conversation quickly moves to the other players on the roster. None of them standout and the lack of a big time player opposite Matthews is one of the biggest conscerns among the packers fans and writers. I am already anticipating the shouts and articles begging Ted Thompson to draft a big time linebacker in next years draft. So let's discuss the topic with a little more attention to detail.

Over the past two seasons the packers have totaled 16.5 sacks opposite of Clay Matthews. 8.5 of those sacks in 09 and 8 in 2010. For the sake of comparison Ray Edwards also totaled 16.5 sacks in the past two seasons. In fact the only secondary linebacker to record more than 6 sacks last season was Woodley with 10. In 2010 the packers secondary linebacks would have ranked 2nd in the league behind only Woodley (Feel free to check the stats, I didn't really want to spend to much time digging). The overall point is during the past two seasons the packers outside linebackers have been very productive. In fact they've been so productive that only a Woodley type pass rusher would be an actual improvment over what they have. Having tandem probowl ends or linebackers is extremely rare. Finding these players in draft is difficult to say the least. In total the packers outside linebackers actually had one more sack than Woodley and Harrison combined (21.5 to 20.5). That's not to bad if you ask me.

Not only do the packers other outside linebackers have talent, they are extremely well coached. So instead of hoping for the next hyped talent coming out of college, get geared up for a great training camp battle. And look foward to what will probabley be another good year for one of the nfl's most productive overall linbacking units.
Greg C.
13 years ago
He makes a good point. The ROLB position has been very productive sack-wise. I will also add that those players haven't been a serious liability against the run. I would still love to see a blue chip player opposite Matthews, but it's not absolutely necessary.

One thing that will be different this year, probably, is that Cullen Jenkins will be gone. The ROLB position has benefited statistically because of the attention that Jenkins has gotten from blockers. If Neal or someone else is not able to fill Jenkins' shoes, ROLB may look like more of a weakness than it has been the past couple of years.
blank
Stevetarded
13 years ago
Here is an interesting article from profootballfocus that I found. It's a little subjective but it still looks pretty fair.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/ 

This was as of November so it isn't the whole season. It had Clay ranked 4th in LBs in productivity which is pressures/pass rush. Cullen Jenkins was 9th. At the bottom it has the worst and Zombo was 2nd worst and Brad Jones was 9th worst. Some interesting things that stand out to me is Zombo and Jones had more combined rushes at this point than Clay, while that's not too surprising because Clay was missing some snaps because of injury it shows me that our other LBs do get to rush the passer a lot (so raw numbers like "such and such had 4 sacks" may not be as meaningful).

As far as Zombo is concerned this doesn't bother me too much because he was a rookie converting from DE. I think Zombo will win the competition and start the season as the other OLB and I'm excited to see if he has improved. By no means do I expect everyone out there to be Clay Matthews but OLB is definitely a position from last season that can be improved upon.
blank
Yerko
13 years ago
Frank Zombo vs. Brad Jones vs. Erik Walden vs. Brady Poppinga vs. Ricky Elmore

All fighting for the starting ROLB position. Should be a good battle, but I do hope to see Zombo come out on top after training camp. With his first year transition from defensive end to OLB, he did exceptionally well. He could work on his pass protection which should be a level up from last year (assuming he is working on that) and he already has the pass rushing skills of a defensive lineman.

The other name I am really interested to see coming out of this battle is Ricky Elmore. Doubt he gets a starting gig this season but interested to see how he evolves into an OLB from defensive end. He is already training with Matthews II and will be able to learn from one of the best in Matthews III for an entire season and off-season.
UserPostedImage
Greg C.
13 years ago

Here is an interesting article from profootballfocus that I found. It's a little subjective but it still looks pretty fair.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/ 

This was as of November so it isn't the whole season. It had Clay ranked 4th in LBs in productivity which is pressures/pass rush. Cullen Jenkins was 9th. At the bottom it has the worst and Zombo was 2nd worst and Brad Jones was 9th worst. Some interesting things that stand out to me is Zombo and Jones had more combined rushes at this point than Clay, while that's not too surprising because Clay was missing some snaps because of injury it shows me that our other LBs do get to rush the passer a lot (so raw numbers like "such and such had 4 sacks" may not be as meaningful).

As far as Zombo is concerned this doesn't bother me too much because he was a rookie converting from DE. I think Zombo will win the competition and start the season as the other OLB and I'm excited to see if he has improved. By no means do I expect everyone out there to be Clay Matthews but OLB is definitely a position from last season that can be improved upon.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 



Interesting article. It does sound like a fair way to assess pass rushing, and Zombo and Brad Jones were both in the bottom 10 among OLBs. The article is from the middle of last season. I wonder if Zombo improved after that. Probably not, because he was hurt a lot. I still feel good about where he's at heading into next season, though. I don't feel as good about Jones, with his injuries and unimpressive play. I don't think Poppinga will be in the mix. It's probably a bad sign if he is.
blank
porky88
13 years ago
No matter how you slice it, the Packers don't have a consistent pass rush LB opposite of Clay Matthews. Frank Zombo is a high motor and intense guy, but he's not a dynamic pass rusher. I like Zombo and I think there is more upside to his game than many give him credit for having. However, at this point, his pressure tends to come because of excellent coverage down the field. In other words, he's not creating any pressure on his own as Matthews, Cullen Jenkins, and B.J. Raji have.
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
Frank Zombo is better than Clay Matthews III. The stats will back me up!!


(waits for porky to tear me apart ... lol)
UserPostedImage
adroge
  • adroge
  • Registered Topic Starter
13 years ago
Zombo got way better towards the end of the season. Also remember that Jones switched from lolb (where he was pretty productive in 09) to rolb and got hurt in camp, leaving him no time to adjust. Jones dealt with injuries the whole time before eventually going on IR. Difficlut circumstances to expect great production.

Remember also that it's difficult to really know how Capers is using a particular passrusher on a given play. These guys don't get a free try to get to the quarterback on every play. They have to push the pocket, maintain lanes, and take up blockers to open up blitizing lanes. It's very likely that Matthews and Jenkins get the nod to attack much more often than the others. Zombo got very good at pushing the pocket and getting push on both run and pass plays. Capers knows how to use his players to best fit their skills and give him the most effective overall defense. When Walden had his great performance against the bears, Capers pulled him off the line scrimmage and allowed him to use his athletisism. Walden was a weakness at the point of attack, but Capers learned how to better utilize Walden even though Walden hadn't been with the packers very long. I remember Kevin Greene getting pretty upset when the media was calling Zombo "just a guy". Greene explained Zombo was doing his job exaclty as the packers intended him to.

The packers were very productive at getting pressure on the quarterback the last season in a half. They were productive even when Jenkins was out. I'm confident Capers and Greene will once again find a way to get production out of this linebacking unit.

But don't sell the linebackers short of talent either. Jones,Zombo, and Walden all have their upside. Elmore could develope as well. The packers seem very high on Zombo. Zombo was much more productive in his rookie year than Kampman was in his first three years. Even Woodley only had 4 sacks in his rookie year. To many people judge players based on what they've done. You have to understand players need time to develope. It doesn't mean it's a sure thing to happen, but odds are one of those guys will turn into a quality player. As for know, Capers and Greene should continue to get good production out of the group while they develope.

porky88
13 years ago

Remember also that it's difficult to really know how Capers is using a particular passrusher on a given play. These guys don't get a free try to get to the quarterback on every play. They have to push the pocket, maintain lanes, and take up blockers to open up blitizing lanes. It's very likely that Matthews and Jenkins get the nod to attack much more often than the others. Zombo got very good at pushing the pocket and getting push on both run and pass plays. Capers knows how to use his players to best fit their skills and give him the most effective overall defense. When Walden had his great performance against the bears, Capers pulled him off the line scrimmage and allowed him to use his athletisism. Walden was a weakness at the point of attack, but Capers learned how to better utilize Walden even though Walden hadn't been with the packers very long. I remember Kevin Greene getting pretty upset when the media was calling Zombo "just a guy". Greene explained Zombo was doing his job exaclty as the packers intended him to.

Originally Posted by: adroge 


This is the beauty of Dom Capers and why he is every bit as valuable to the organization as anyone right now. You are absolutely right. Capers can use a diverse amount of creativity in order to create pressure. He did it last year, which is why I believe most people suspect the Packers are fine without a LaMarr Woodley like compliment opposite of Matthews.

However, if Matthews goes down, the Packers are going to be in a great deal of trouble. Of course, you can say that about any valuable commodity in football, but I would point toward the Miami game as an example of Matthews' value. The Packers did not sack Chad Henne one time. He had all day to find Brandon Marshall down the field often in that game. Frankly, a QB his caliber shouldn’t have been as successful against a defense the caliber of the Packers’.

The problem opposite of Matthews isn't that they don't have a guy or guys that can fill the role. The problem is they don't have anyone who can create. Capers has to scheme pressure for a guy like Zombo. He doesn't for Matthews and Dick Lebeau doesn't for his duo. With Matthews in place, Capers is able to create more opportunities for other players, especially Walden or Zombo.

Basically, I wouldn’t discount Zombo or anyone playing a role opposite of Matthews. However, if Matthews goes down for an extended period, they just simply don’t have the capabilities of picking up enough slack.
nerdmann
13 years ago
Bottom line is that we got some guys who can get it done, but we don't have a guy the calibur of Clay Matthews on the right side. That's ok. It would be nice, and it's maybe something we can look for in the draft next year. But we can still win with these guys.
And who knows, any one of them might take a step up this year. KGB wasn't anything his first year.
Here's another issue: Yeah, Cullin Jenkins was a force for us. But don't forget Woody's impact as a pass rusher.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (5h) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22h) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

19-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.