macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
I had forgotten how good the 2000 draft was (with the draft pick Vinson trade for Ahman Green included).

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article_zeller/article-1/Ranking-the-drafts-Which-is-the-best/6ce973d4-6715-4158-b2ac-617b4832f755 

The roots of the best teams, particularly the most memorable rosters that grow into Super Bowl champions, are the draft classes that precede them. Scan through the Packers of today, the 1990s or the Lombardi dynasties and the drafts of the years before are littered with the players who developed into the foundation of those great teams. Building through the inexact science that is the draft is the Packers' way.

So what are the best indicators of a top draft class? Is it just a few standouts or overall quality? Theres no denying an exceptional group when it only includes two or three terrific players. Another factor is how many individuals become starters or top contributors early in their careers, and how much success follows the groups arrival.

In 1956 and 58, the Packers selected a pair of Hall of Famers, and only three other draft classes in NFL history have produced more Hall of Fame inductees: the Steelers epic class from 74 (Lynn Swann, Jack Lambert, John Stallworth and Mike Webster); Clevelands three in 57 (Jim Brown, Henry Jordan voted in primarily on his merits after being traded to the Packers in 59 and Gene Hickerson); and the Cowboys trio from 64 (Mel Renfro, Bob Hayes and Roger Staubach).

In NFL history, the Pittsburgh draft class of 74 provides clear evidence of the argument of numbers vs. quality. Four years earlier, the Steelers selected two players who were voted to the Hall of Fame: No. 1 QB Terry Bradshaw in the first round and third-round pick Mel Blount at cornerback. As the franchise quarterback, Bradshaw was the central figure in the Steelers four title teams. With QBs who prove to be the catalyst for long-term success, theres always a different curve.

Also, trades come into the equation. NFL teams often look at dealing picks for players as part of that years draft haul. What follows is one opinion of the Packers top 10 draft classes in club history.

10. 1952 While the Packers of the 1950s werent the annual contenders of the next decade, this class was a quality unit. QB Babe Parilli only started 13 games in Green Bay after being selected fourth overall, but he moved on to the Patriots where he was a record-breaking passer in the AFL.

The next three picks were solid, long-term acquisitions for the Packers. Wide receiver Billy Howton, taken in the second round out of Rice, had 302 catches for 5,581 yards and 43 TDs. Including his rookie season, Howton twice led the NFL in receiving yardage and led the league in touchdown receptions in 1956 with 12.

In the third round, the team selected defensive back Bobby Dillon, a four-time All-Pro who holds the team record with 52 career interceptions and returned five for touchdowns. Dillon led the team in interceptions seven of his eight seasons.

In the fifth round, the club chose defensive tackle Dave Hanner. Nicknamed Hawg, Hanner played in 160 games, was voted to the Pro Bowl in 53 and 54 and started on the 61 and 62 NFL Championship teams.

9. 1990 The Packers opened the decade with a draft that brought in players that would be key performers in the coming seasons as the club shook off the 1980s. Linebacker Tony Bennett, selected 18th overall, would notch 36 sacks in 56 games in Green Bay, including ranking sixth in the NFL in 91 with 13. Safety LeRoy Butler of Florida State was taken 48th overall in the second round, and he emerged as one of the NFLs most consistent defenders over the next 12 seasons and was a four-time All-Pro.

Fourth-round pick Jackie Harris had 133 catches for the Packers from 1990-93 and played in the NFL for 12 years. Green Bay selected Bryce Paup in the sixth round out of Northern Iowa, and the linebacker had 32.5 sacks while opening 41 of 54 games. Paup was voted to the Pro Bowl in 94, his final year in Green Bay, and the following season was named the AP Defensive Player of the Year with Buffalo.

8. 2000 This was a draft that brought in a legion of big men. TE Bubba Franks was selected 14th overall, and before departing in 07 he made three trips to the Pro Bowl and scored 31 touchdowns. Second-round pick Chad Clifton is still going strong after being taken 44th overall, with Super Bowl XLV marking the 171st career start for the left tackle. LB Nail Diggs, the teams fourth-round pick at 98th overall, earned all-rookie accolades and played in 84 games before his departure in 05.

In the fifth round, the team selected Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, who closed his career in 08 as the clubs all-time leading sacker with 74.5. T Mark Tauscher of Wisconsin was taken at 224th overall, and he has served as a bookend with Clifton in the years since.

A notable trade was also consummated in this draft, with the Packers packaging their sixth-round choice along with CB Fred Vinson and sending them to Seattle for RB Ahman Green, who developed into Green Bays all-time leading rusher.

7. 2006 The class brought in five players who were starters by their second year linebacker A.J. Hawk, guard Daryn Colledge, wide receiver Greg Jennings, guard Jason Spitz and defensive lineman Johnny Jolly. Hawk made the Pro Bowl for the first time in 2010 and has led the club or finished second in tackles every season since joining the club. Jennings made the Pro Bowl last year, has notched three straight 1,000-yard seasons and scored 40 TDs.

Colledge has opened 76 contests in his career, primarily at guard. Spitz has started at center and both guard spots, opening 45 of 65 games. Before his legal problems in recent seasons, Jolly was a solid defender up front. The class of 06 proved to be part of the backbone of the Super Bowl XLV title team.

6. 2005 The perfect example of a draft notable for its quality as opposed to its quantity, Aaron Rodgers memorably fell to the Packers at 24th overall, and he has developed into one of the NFLs best quarterbacks. In the second round, GM Ted Thompson selected S/CB Nick Collins out of Bethune-Cookman, who has been voted to the last three Pro Bowls.

The only other player from the group still on the roster is linebacker Brady Poppinga of BYU, selected 125th overall in the fourth round. Though he suffered a knee injury after six contests last year, Poppinga has started 44 of 81 games since his arrival. In a time when the NFL is dominated by the quarterback, history is already showing landing Rodgers a Super Bowl MVP still improving makes the 2005 draft class among the Packers best.

5. 1957 Gaining the first overall pick as a bonus choice from the final year of the annual draft lottery, Green Bay selected Heisman Trophy winner Paul Hornung of Notre Dame. The multi-talented Hornung was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1986.

With the fourth overall selection, the Packers selected Ron Kramer, a rugged blocker who was one of the NFLs top tight ends of his era. Kramer was dominant from 1960-64, catching 142 passes for 2,257 yards and 15 TDs. The Michigan native was traded to the Lions in 65 by request for personal reasons.

In the 23rd round, the Packers selected John Symank 268th overall out of Florida. The defensive back would intercept 18 passes before being traded in 1962, including nine as a rookie. Symank tied for the team lead with five interceptions on the 1961 NFL title team.

4. 1995 While only No. 1 pick Craig Newsome earned a starting spot as a rookie, five players from this draft haul were in the lineup in 1996 on a club that went 13-3 and won Super Bowl XXXI. Two third-round picks proved to be the real gems. FB William Henderson was a rugged blocker and played in 188 games, catching 320 passes and making the Pro Bowl in 2004. Fellow third-rounder Antonio Freeman had 431 career receptions for 6,651 yards and 61 TDs.

LB Brian Williams played for the Packers until 2000, appearing in 72 contests.

The final player the club selected in 95 was guard Adam Timmerman, who opened every game with the Packers from 96-'98 before departing as a free agent. In 95, the club also selected DT Darius Holland as the first of their four third-round picks, a reserve who played in 42 contests, and RB Travis Jervey in the fifth round, a backup who played for the Packers for four years and made the Pro Bowl as a special teamer in 97.

3. 1992 This was the first draft of former GM Ron Wolf a key figure in turning around a franchise that had struggled for a quarter-century and remarkable for the players he brought in, as well as the trades he engineered. The Packers traded their second No. 1, the 17th overall pick, to Atlanta for QB Brett Favre, solidifying the position for the next 16 seasons.

With the fifth overall selection, Green Bay chose CB Terrell Buckley, who would open 44 of 46 games in Green Bay before departing in 1995. The 45th overall pick in the second round was dealt to San Francisco as compensation for hiring Mike Holmgren as head coach.

In the third round, Green Bay took wide receiver Robert Brooks, a speedy target who would haul in 305 passes for 4,225 yards and 32 touchdowns. The fourth round brought Florida State fullback Edgar Bennett, a stalwart for five seasons, and sixth-rounder Mark Chmura was one of the NFLs top tight ends in the mid-1990s while being voted to three Pro Bowls.

2. 1958 This one reads like a Whos Who in Packers lore, and the three main characters were part of five NFL titles, including the first two Super Bowls. Two Pro Football Hall of Fame inductees were included: second-rounder FB Jim Taylor and third-round pick LB Ray Nitschke. Taylor arrived in Canton in 1976 after rushing for over 1,000 yards for five straight seasons and being named to five Pro Bowls during his nine years in Green Bay. Nitschke, inducted to the Hall of Fame in 1978, played in 190 games and was named to the NFLs 50th and 75th anniversary teams. The teams practice field is named after him.

In the fourth round, the Packers chose G Jerry Kramer, the only member of the NFLs 50th Anniversary team not voted into the Hall of Fame. Kramer was a five-time All-Pro. He also served as kicker from 1962-63, including drilling three field goals in the 16-7 victory over the Giants for the 62 NFL title game.

The clubs overshadowed No. 1 pick was LB Dan Currie, who played in 90 games, went to the Pro Bowl in 60, was an All-Pro in 62 and started on two championship teams.

1. 1956 Another Packers draft that featured a pair of Hall of Famers, tackle Forrest Gregg in the second round at 20th overall and QB Bart Starr, taken in the 17th round at 200th. Fittingly, both were inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1977. Gregg was a nine-time Pro-Bowl pick and Starr was voted to the postseason all-star game five times.

The draft also mined a couple of other quality players. Fifth-rounder Bob Skoronski, a tackle out of the University of Indiana, played in 146 games, made the Pro Bowl in 66 and was a starter on all five NFL Championship teams of the 1960s.

Seventh-round choice Hank Gremminger, taken 80th overall out of Baylor, played in Green Bay until 65 and had 28 interceptions at defensive back.

Vince Lombardi considered Gregg the greatest player he ever coached. Adding Starr, a two-time Super Bowl MVP at quarterback, at the bargain-basement price of the 200th overall choice, puts the 1956 draft over the top.

Packers.com wrote:

Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago
It will be interesting to see how these rankings shift over the years if this current nucleus of players wins another championship or two.
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Greg C.
13 years ago
This writer has clearly done his homework, and he offers a lot of evidence to support his claims. My one big beef is that he relies too much on number of games started as the measure of whether a player was a good pick. Thus, he counts first round pick Terrell Buckley and second round pick Darryn Colledge as successes, even though they were or have been below average players. Buckley, in particular, was an awful CB and a notorious bust, even though he played better for other teams later in his career.
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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
13 years ago
Interesting read.
Greg I can understand why he uses games started as a measure of success. No matter how bad the player is if the team doesn't have someone else to take his place he wins the position. In a manner of speaking he is a success.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago
So even Matt Millen was successful, since his useless drafts yielded people who got lots of starts?
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Greg C.
13 years ago

So even Matt Millen was successful, since his useless drafts yielded people who got lots of starts?

"Wade" wrote:



That's the way I look at it too. Every team has 22 starting positions, whether the players are good or awful. That's why you need to look at quality of play rather than number of games started.
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Pack93z
13 years ago

So even Matt Millen was successful, since his useless drafts yielded people who got lots of starts?

"Greg C." wrote:



That's the way I look at it too. Every team has 22 starting positions, whether the players are good or awful. That's why you need to look at quality of play rather than number of games started.

"Wade" wrote:



And a better measure would be?

I believe it would a rather complex and even subjective formula no matter how you try to compare players and draft classes of different eras.

The beauty of this game is that it takes teams of exceptional players to win.. and special players mixed in to win a championship.

No cut and dried way to slice it up.. IMO.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Greg C.
13 years ago

So even Matt Millen was successful, since his useless drafts yielded people who got lots of starts?

"Pack93z" wrote:



That's the way I look at it too. Every team has 22 starting positions, whether the players are good or awful. That's why you need to look at quality of play rather than number of games started.

"Greg C." wrote:



And a better measure would be?

I believe it would a rather complex and even subjective formula no matter how you try to compare players and draft classes of different eras.

The beauty of this game is that it takes teams of exceptional players to win.. and special players mixed in to win a championship.

No cut and dried way to slice it up.. IMO.

"Wade" wrote:



A better measure would be how well they played. Often things that are easy to measure, such as games started, figure too prominently in these sorts of analyses. But you have to do the more difficult work of actually judging how well the players play. Of course it's subjective, but there's no way around it.

In the case of Terrell Buckley, I thought it was pretty obvious that he was a horrible first round draft pick. If anybody disagrees with that, let me know. Also, I don't think Darryn Colledge has been very good as a second round pick. He did improve his performance this year, but he's been up and down--not as solid as one would like for a player drafted that highly.
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Pack93z
13 years ago
Greg... not trying to be argumentative.. more or less... what is the marker for determining how well they played.. and when they played it.

Stats can be tainted depending on the players around them.. so no you can't use stats as a viable marker.

Games played has a direction coloration to the job of the GM in putting together the team in that era. So I would agree that would be a weak marker.

I like you idea of looking at how they play.. but then again.. that can be misleading if for instance you are grading out a S without knowing the coverage or his responsibility in the coverage. Or a wideout blowing a route and making a QB look awful. Or a back that doesn't hit the right hole and makes the offensive lineman look terrible... or the inverse of a back the is instinctive as hell and make the line look special.

That analysis isn't something that can be written and validated by the common fan.. even though it is much more valuable to the team and a hardcore fan.. it is almost impossible without writing a book to quantify.

So that circles us back to some tangible as a reference point that a fan can grab ahold to and the writer can use to validate the stance..

I guess what I am saying is does that writer want something they can point to as tangible evidence and make it somewhat short in nature and get the mainstream to read.. or go ultra technical and reduce the number of people that will spend the time to read it.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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