Cullen Jenkins importance ·

Zero2Cool
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14 years ago

Cullen Jenkins is an elite player? Are we calling anyone elite now?

Reggie White, elite.
Barry Sanders, elite.
Joe Montana, elite.
Jerry Rice, elite.
Walter Payton, elite.

I like Cullen Jenkins, but elite he is not.
7 seasons and not getting more than 7 sacks or 44 tackles in a season is not elite. Heck, Clay Matthews III is has had more tackles in each of his two years than the highest Cullen has got. Not to mention he's only played for two seasons an is less than 6 career sacks behind Cullen. Unless we're gonna call Clay, Jesus. I suppose he has the hair, just needs the beard. :)

I was okay with letting Jenkins leave because I felt we had Johnny Jolly. My tune has changed, sign Jenkins to an incentive laden contract. His injuries worry me, but when he's on the field he's a good player.

zombieslayer
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14 years ago

#2

7 sacks in 11 games from the DE/DT position of a 3-4 D?

OK, Zero, show me just ONE more player in the NFL who has 7 sacks in 11 games (or a similar rate) at the 3-4 DE/DT position. :scratch:

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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
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bozz_2006
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14 years ago

#3

There's all-time elite and there's current elite Zero. Surely you don't suspect that he's putting Jenkins in the same conversation as Reggie White or guys like Rice and Montana. I think Rodgers is elite but I'm not going to say he's Montana elite. If he keeps it up for another 12 years or so then we can have that conversation. Jenkins is in the conversation of most talented and impactful 3-4 ends in the game.

Greg C.
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14 years ago

#4

Not so long ago, Zero claimed that Adrian Peterson was not elite. Zero has high standards. I suspect that really it's all just an excuse to mention Barry Sanders.

Anyway, I wouldn't call Jenkins "elite," but he's one of the better 3-4 DEs in the league, and I'd love to have him back. He's probably going to cost too much, though.

P.S. Just funnin' with you, Zero.

blank

blueleopard
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14 years ago

#5

Cullen Jenkins is an elite player? Are we calling anyone elite now?

Reggie White, elite.
Barry Sanders, elite.
Joe Montana, elite.
Jerry Rice, elite.
Walter Payton, elite.

I like Cullen Jenkins, but elite he is not.
7 seasons and not getting more than 7 sacks or 44 tackles in a season is not elite. Heck, Clay Matthews III is has had more tackles in each of his two years than the highest Cullen has got. Not to mention he's only played for two seasons an is less than 6 career sacks behind Cullen. Unless we're gonna call Clay, Jesus. I suppose he has the hair, just needs the beard. :)

I was okay with letting Jenkins leave because I felt we had Johnny Jolly. My tune has changed, sign Jenkins to an incentive laden contract. His injuries worry me, but when he's on the field he's a good player.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I'd consider Jenkins elite. There's a difference between an elite player and a hall of fame player.

Looking at Jenkins, is there any other 3-4 DE you'd rather have right now? 7 sacks for a 3-4 DE is a hell of a lot of sacks. You can knock him for his injury, but the fact that he had 7 playing hurt speaks a lot about his value on the team.

And you talk as if he's damaged goods. Let me remind you that he sweated it out by playing with a busted hand at the beginning of the season and was still able to be effective.

There is no other 3-4 DE in the entire league that I'd rather have than Cullen Jenkins. The only player that even comes close to his skillset is Richard Seymour, and that guy is way passed his prime.

Danreb Victorio A Believer of Greg Jennings

vikesrule
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14 years ago

#6

Zero has high standards.

"Greg C." wrote:

Since when?

That would be a quality previously unseen and highly unlikely to ever occur. ::wink:

Zero2Cool
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14 years ago

#7

Not so long ago, Zero claimed that Adrian Peterson was not elite. Zero has high standards. I suspect that really it's all just an excuse to mention Barry Sanders.

Anyway, I wouldn't call Jenkins "elite," but he's one of the better 3-4 DEs in the league, and I'd love to have him back. He's probably going to cost too much, though.

P.S. Just funnin' with you, Zero.

"Greg C." wrote:

I think Adrian Peterson is the closest thing the NFL currently has to an elite running back.

I just think elite means in a class above the rest and I just don't feel Cullen Jenkins there. It was mentioned he had 7 sacks in 11 games, sure on the same team that had the years prior defensive player of the year and a guy named Clay Matthews III who racked up double digit sacks. I suppose that means nothing, right?

Thinking maybe I'm off here, I looked up the definition ...
Elite: the elite is a relatively small dominant group within a large society.

Cullen Jenkins I think is a valuable part of the defense, especially since it's looking like Johnny Jolly won't be contributing anything but license plate production. I also think Cullen and Clay benefit from one another too.

Zero2Cool
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14 years ago

#8

I've addressed other points of your post but this one here ...

I'd consider Jenkins elite. There's a difference between an elite player and a hall of fame player.

"blueleopard" wrote:

Hall of Fame. Gosh, that's ANOTHER word/phrase we throw around haphazardly. When Peyton Manning or Ray Lewis (few others too) are on the field they are referred often times as Hall of Fame players. They're not in the hall of fame, not even eligible. Wait for them to retire, go without the game for five years and then start the hall of fame talk. I think we jump the gun on throwing such high praises towards athletes.

millertime
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14 years ago

#9

Cullen Jenkins is an elite player? Are we calling anyone elite now?

Reggie White, elite.
Barry Sanders, elite.
Joe Montana, elite.
Jerry Rice, elite.
Walter Payton, elite.

I like Cullen Jenkins, but elite he is not.
7 seasons and not getting more than 7 sacks or 44 tackles in a season is not elite. Heck, Clay Matthews III is has had more tackles in each of his two years than the highest Cullen has got. Not to mention he's only played for two seasons an is less than 6 career sacks behind Cullen. Unless we're gonna call Clay, Jesus. I suppose he has the hair, just needs the beard. :)

I was okay with letting Jenkins leave because I felt we had Johnny Jolly. My tune has changed, sign Jenkins to an incentive laden contract. His injuries worry me, but when he's on the field he's a good player.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

DakotaT
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14 years ago

#10

Cullen Jenkin's talents are wasted in a 3-4 defense. Calling him a run stuffer degrades the man's abilities. He is best suited to play the power DE in a 4-3. I don't think we will sign him back. We will go with Greasy, Raji, and Green in base and in the nickel we will put Neal in with Raji to collapse the pocket.

Thank you Cullen for being a great Packer. I only hope he goes somewhere other than our divisions rivals.

Zero2Cool
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14 years ago

#11

That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

"millertime" wrote:

You're complete utter failure at comprehending the point of my mentioning those players is beyond hilarious, especially since you try to call me out for allegedly comparing Cullen Jenkins to Reggie White? Please, point out where I did that.

I can't help notice you didn't mention any of the other players I listed off, why is that?

You bring up Nick Collins and compare his interceptions to that of Clay Matthews. That's clever because DL and LB's are never ranked by their tackles and sacks, but rather their interception totals.

If it makes you feel better, I don't think Barry Sanders would be able to a single sack if here to line up in Cullen Jenkins shoes.;)

nerdmann
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14 years ago

#12

Bruce Smith was a 3-4 DE. People don't realize that, because he had so many sacks. He was injured quite a bit too.
I don't think Jenkins is at the level of Smith, but he's not far from it. He's a great player, often injured, but has played through alot of that.

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Greg C.
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14 years ago

#13

Cullen Jenkin's talents are wasted in a 3-4 defense. Calling him a run stuffer degrades the man's abilities. He is best suited to play the power DE in a 4-3. I don't think we will sign him back. We will go with Greasy, Raji, and Green in base and in the nickel we will put Neal in with Raji to collapse the pocket.

Thank you Cullen for being a great Packer. I only hope he goes somewhere other than our divisions rivals.

"DakotaT" wrote:

If his talents are wasted in a 3-4 defense, how did he get seven sacks in 11 games? I don't think 3-4 DE is nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Jenkins wasn't thrilled about the switch to the 3-4, but he's done just fine and he is in position to get a big payday. His injuries are the only factor that could prevent him from getting a really huge contract.

I still think the odds are against him returning to Green Bay, though. I'm with you on that one.

blank

Zero2Cool
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14 years ago

#14

If it wasn't for the injuries, I'd be more enthused about Cullen Jenkins returning with a nice payday. His injuries are what worry me.

Rockmolder
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14 years ago

#15

Bruce Smith was a 3-4 DE. People don't realize that, because he had so many sacks. He was injured quite a bit too.
I don't think Jenkins is at the level of Smith, but he's not far from it. He's a great player, often injured, but has played through alot of that.

"nerdmann" wrote:

A thing most people forget is that there's a difference between playing 3-4 DE and 3-4 DE.

You guys ought to remember the SB. When the Steelers went to passing formations or were in certain passing downs, we played with a pretty strange D-line.

Jenkins had quite a few plays where he played 5-technique. Both during that game and during the season. At that point, you're pretty much playing the same position as a 4-3 DE.

It happens so often that the only thing that differenciates the 3-4 from a 4-3 is that that single OLB is standing instead of putting his hand on the ground, but the responsibilities and tasks are exactly the same.

And, of course, the defensive cordinator matters, as well.

Bruce Smith had some great years under Wade Phillips. I reckon that Mario Williams will have the same. The guy is an amazing physical specimen. That quickness and pass rushing skill at 6'6, 295 is absolutely amazing. If he'll get some help, he'll be putting up some great numbers.

millertime
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14 years ago

#16

That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

You're complete utter failure at comprehending the point of my mentioning those players is beyond hilarious, especially since you try to call me out for allegedly comparing Cullen Jenkins to Reggie White? Please, point out where I did that.

I can't help notice you didn't mention any of the other players I listed off, why is that?

You bring up Nick Collins and compare his interceptions to that of Clay Matthews. That's clever because DL and LB's are never ranked by their tackles and sacks, but rather their interception totals.

If it makes you feel better, I don't think Barry Sanders would be able to a single sack if here to line up in Cullen Jenkins shoes.;)

"millertime" wrote:

All I'm saying is that we have different definitions of the word "elite." I understand what you said but I don't agree with you. ; )

You can't rank players solely on stats anyways, especially defensive linemen in a 3-4. All I'm saying is that Cullen Jenkins impact is far greater than his stat line which, as everyone else has mentioned, is still pretty damn impressive. Can you really name one 3-4 DE better than him???

Anyways...

If there ever was a year for Ted to let Cullen walk, this may be the year. The draft is LOADED with talented defensive linemen and there is a very good chance that a solid one will be waiting for us at 32. And with the lockout pressing on, it's not like Ted could resign him right now even if Jenkins wanted to return.

zombieslayer
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14 years ago

#17

That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

"millertime" wrote:

You got awarded an applause point.

I think the majority of us accept the word "elite" as top class in by position. So in any given year, there may be 7 elite QBs, 3 elite RBs, 8 elite WRs, 2 elite TEs, 20 elite OL, etc. I can't think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins either, and another bonus point for Jenkins is he can play DT as well if he had to.

I would love to see that stat of how many sacks CM3 and Raji get when Jenkins is on the field as well.

I'll tell you what. I bet if you interviewed all the coaches who played against us in those 11 games that Jenkins played, they'd probably all say the same thing - he was either the best or the 2nd best 3-4 DE they encountered that year. That would make him elite.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

millertime
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14 years ago

#18

That is like say Clay Matthews isn't as good as Nick Collins because he has less interceptions. They play completely different positions.

Jenkins top priority to is occupy blockers and stuff the run. The facts that he is able to rack up sacks ON TOP of his other duties is what makes him elite.

You obviously have a different definition of elite than about everyone else out here. Comparing him to Reggie White? Really??? I'm not trying to be a dick, but that post was pretty lame.

I honestly cannot think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins. Maybe Aaron Smith of the Steelers, but I think even that is a stretch. I'm not saying Jenkins is the greatest all time (see Reggie), but I'm saying he's a good player that draws blockers away from Clay and our other guys. I'd like to see a stat on how many sacks Clay and Raji got when Cullen was on the field vs. off.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

You got awarded an applause point.

I think the majority of us accept the word "elite" as top class in by position. So in any given year, there may be 7 elite QBs, 3 elite RBs, 8 elite WRs, 2 elite TEs, 20 elite OL, etc. I can't think of a better 3-4 DE than Jenkins either, and another bonus point for Jenkins is he can play DT as well if he had to.

I would love to see that stat of how many sacks CM3 and Raji get when Jenkins is on the field as well.

I'll tell you what. I bet if you interviewed all the coaches who played against us in those 11 games that Jenkins played, they'd probably all say the same thing - he was either the best or the 2nd best 3-4 DE they encountered that year. That would make him elite.

"millertime" wrote:

He was a great 4-3 DT and even a great 4-3 DE. He's just a hell of a player. I think a lot of teams know that and will drive his cost up.

porky88
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14 years ago

#19

It kind of depends on how you label players.

If Reggie White is in the elite class, Cullen Jenkins is not elite.

He is, however, a blue chip player. In my view, blue chip players are hard to find. We are talking about production, value, and versatility. I wouldn't call him one of the top five DEs in the game. I would consider him one of the top five 3-4 DEs in the game. I'd also put him as among the most scheme versatile players playing, so he definitely fits my criteria of a blue chip player.

Personally, I think losing him hurts. Ultimately, regaining the IR players is going to overcome any losses the Pack take via free agency. Thats with Cullen Jenkins or no Cullen Jenkins. It also says something about the current state of the Packers.

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Zero2Cool
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14 years ago

#20

What! Stats don't tell the whole story? Gosh, I never said that a few hundred times or anything. :sarcasm:

All I'm saying is that we have different definitions of the word "elite." I understand what you said but I don't agree with you. ; )

"millertime" wrote:

You said a lot more, in fact put several words in my mouth and failed to clear it up, but then again when you have others mindlessly applauding that piss poor tactic of debating, why would you take the time to make things right?

I listed off players whom I felt were elite. I did not compare Cullen Jenkins to any of them. I've said time and time again stats don't tell the whole story.

What I had challenged was that Cullen Jenkins is an elite player in the NFL. I just don't think he is and I don't feel there's any reason to call my opinion lame because you didn't understand what I was saying.

This whole name me players who are better ... then we narrow it down to only 3 - 4 DE's ... c'mon ... if you have to get that specific do you really have an argument?

I'm a good sport so I'll play along. I'm completely ignorant on what teams even run a 3 - 4 defense. Does that mean I must consider Cullen Jenkins an elite DE?

I think I under valued Cullen Jenkins and that's something I do with every Packer because I try to view them from outside in to avoid being bias. I think Clay, Cullen and B.J. are important to the success of the Packers defensive front seven and each benefit from one another. I'd also say B.J. and Cullen benefit from Clay more than anything else.

It'd be awesome to have Cullen Jenkins back as a Packer because as I've said countless times, he helps the Packers outside of the numbers he puts up. Once again, I'll say this too, I'm worried about his injuries. He's only 30, which after thinking about it some, don't feel is old for a DE.

In my opinion the closest players the Packers have to being elite would be Aaron Rodgers, Clay Matthews and Charles Woodson.

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