zombieslayer
14 years ago
Urgh. Anyone here speak English?

Keys did last year. You can stretch them to 10 years and they'll be exactly the same - D is #1, Passing #2 (QB rating is good to use, but not yards), and rushing is well, irrelevant. Yes, you still need to hand off the ball occasionally but if you're #1 in rushing or #20, it's not much difference.

"me" wrote:



What does this say? Anyone?

OK, for you non-English speakers, let me explain. Your success at rushing the football is irrelevant. There's really no difference between the best team at rushing in the NFL and the 20th.

An elite D is the most important thing. An elite QB is next. A good rushing attack is completely irrelevant to the success of your team.

Or let me put it into really simple words. It doesn't matter if you SUCK at running the ball or if you RULE at running the ball. What matters is that your Defense RULES and your Quarterback RULES. If your Defense RULES and your Quarterback RULES but your Running Backs SUCK, you still have a good chance at winning the Super Bowl.
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Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago

Seven of the top 10 Rushing Offenses missed the playoffs including the top three.

All I know is every year when you get to the playoffs the field is full of top rated QB's and as the playoffs move along the teams with the hot QB advance.

The other thing is once in the Playoffs most teams you will face can stop the run pretty good. Out of the bottom 14 teams against the run only the Colts and Seattle made it in and Seattle was a joke to get in anyhow.

The Packers got it right.

Throw Ball well + run ball well enough to throw ball well = wins.

"macbob" wrote:



Based on what criteria? Rushing yardage? edit: Then 6 of 10 top passing teams did not make the playoffs, either, using passing yardage as the criteria. That's not much better than the top 10 rushing teams by rushing yardage.

"warhawk" wrote:



But when you combine a top D with a top Passing attack, it probably makes a difference.

A top D and a dominating running game means low scores and tight games. Lots of chances for the ball to bounce the wrong way. Hard to win 3-4 straight in the playoffs when you rely on luck.

Top D comes before either Passing or Running. The higher your D is ranked the better your chances. Running is not at all like that. The average Super Bowl winner has a middle ranked running game for the last 20 years.
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Stevetarded
14 years ago

Urgh. Anyone here speak English?

Keys did last year. You can stretch them to 10 years and they'll be exactly the same - D is #1, Passing #2 (QB rating is good to use, but not yards), and rushing is well, irrelevant. Yes, you still need to hand off the ball occasionally but if you're #1 in rushing or #20, it's not much difference.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



What does this say? Anyone?

OK, for you non-English speakers, let me explain. Your success at rushing the football is irrelevant. There's really no difference between the best team at rushing in the NFL and the 20th.

An elite D is the most important thing. An elite QB is next. A good rushing attack is completely irrelevant to the success of your team.

Or let me put it into really simple words. It doesn't matter if you SUCK at running the ball or if you RULE at running the ball. What matters is that your Defense RULES and your Quarterback RULES. If your Defense RULES and your Quarterback RULES but your Running Backs SUCK, you still have a good chance at winning the Super Bowl.

"me" wrote:



I got what you were saying. Running as an indicator of success is irrelevant.
blank
Stevetarded
14 years ago

Seven of the top 10 Rushing Offenses missed the playoffs including the top three.

All I know is every year when you get to the playoffs the field is full of top rated QB's and as the playoffs move along the teams with the hot QB advance.

The other thing is once in the Playoffs most teams you will face can stop the run pretty good. Out of the bottom 14 teams against the run only the Colts and Seattle made it in and Seattle was a joke to get in anyhow.

The Packers got it right.

Throw Ball well + run ball well enough to throw ball well = wins.

"macbob" wrote:



Based on what criteria? Rushing yardage? edit: Then 6 of 10 top passing teams did not make the playoffs, either, using passing yardage as the criteria. That's not much better than the top 10 rushing teams by rushing yardage.

"warhawk" wrote:



Well there is no "rusher rating" stat to sort by. If you check out pass rating most of those teams did well.

There are more variables in the passing game. Rushing yardage is a much better indicator of how successful a team is running the ball than Passing yards are of a teams actual passing success.

For Example:
If a team rushes well and controls the game then they will likely keep running and continue to accumulate yards throughout the game. If they are bad at rushing they will probably have to pass for much of the game to "catch up" and stop getting yards.

If a team is good at passing and get a lead they will probably run the ball more afterward and stop accumulating passing yards. If a team is bad at passing they will fall behind and be forced to keep passing which will give them more passing yards.
blank
macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
14 years ago

An elite D is the most important thing. An elite QB is next. A good rushing attack is completely irrelevant to the success of your team.

Or let me put it into really simple words. It doesn't matter if you SUCK at running the ball or if you RULE at running the ball. What matters is that your Defense RULES and your Quarterback RULES. If your Defense RULES and your Quarterback RULES but your Running Backs SUCK, you still have a good chance at winning the Super Bowl.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Lets broaden our horizons and look at the passing/running game from a different perspective: passing attempts and rushing attempts.

Only 3 of the top 10 teams in passing attempts made the playoffs. NOTE: Steelers were #27 in pass attempts.

6 Of the top 10 teams in rushing attempts made the playoffs. edit: NOTE: Steelers were one of these, at #8.

NOTE: Packers had a fairly well-balanced attack this year--16th in pass attempts and 20th in rush attempts--for a 56/44% pass-run ratio.

And having an Elite QB, while good, was hardly a guarantee of good performance (just ask the SD Chargers, with the #2 ranked QB this year). Also, not having an elite QB wasn't prohibitive to making the playoffs--Mark Sanchez was ranked #27, and Matt Hasselback was ranked #28 this year, both made the playoffs, and the Jets almost made the SB, losing to the Steelers 24-19 in the AFC Championship game.

FACT: The team with the more-balanced attack (run/pass ratio) during the SB has won 10 of the last 11 years, the sole exception being this year's SB, which had one D creating 3 turnovers, converting 1 directly into a TD.

I won't rehash all of the threads back over the last season that discussed the benefits a good running game brings to your passing game, I'll just summarize them, in simple words:

Instead of good running game = irrelevant, I would say good running game (and by good running game I mean a credible threat to run; one that attracts the D's attention) = better/improved passing game. edit: That's not irrelevant in my book.
zombieslayer
14 years ago



But when you combine a top D with a top Passing attack, it probably makes a difference.

A top D and a dominating running game means low scores and tight games. Lots of chances for the ball to bounce the wrong way. Hard to win 3-4 straight in the playoffs when you rely on luck.

Top D comes before either Passing or Running. The higher your D is ranked the better your chances. Running is not at all like that. The average Super Bowl winner has a middle ranked running game for the last 20 years.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



. This is exactly what I've been saying. D is #1. If you want to win a Super Bowl, build an elite D. That's your #1 priority.

I really didn't want to believe that. When Raider Pride said D wins championships, I looked up stat after stat to prove him wrong and instead, found out he was right. That's when I realized how important D is.

In the process, I found out what matters and what doesn't. Secondary to an elite D is an elite QB. Note that I said secondary. People keep putting words in my mouth and say that I say passing is everything. I haven't said that once since coming to PH. I've said for years now (it was years ago on the other site that shouldn't be mentioned) where RP and I had that initial argument and since then, I've been saying D is #1, yet people still say I say passing is #1.

Now that I've said that for the hundredth time, probably closer to a thousand times now, Dexter gets it. The SB winners have usually been around average rushing teams. That's my point. If you have an elite D & an elite QB, you can have just about anyone out there as your RB. It doesn't matter.

And for the record, rushing drives me nuts because rushing teams usually play close games. Close games make me nervous. I want to see us blow out opponents. Like this - :violent3: That's what I want to see. Not nailbiters.

Teams that pass (the Patriots, us) often blow out teams.

So lastly - here's my question - you get one player and only one player. Your team already has the #1 D. Now, you have to build a team around this person - either Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, or Aaron Rodgers. If you said anyone but Aaron Rodgers, you need to lay off the crack.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago

So lastly - here's my question - you get one player and only one player. Your team already has the #1 D. Now, you have to build a team around this person - either Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, or Aaron Rodgers. If you said anyone but Aaron Rodgers, you need to lay off the crack.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Aaron Rodgers, and it still doesn't change the fact that running the ball is not irrelevant. Ask any OL if they want to pass protect or run block and they will tell you 9 times out of 10, they prefer to run block. Why? Pass block, they get hit. Run block, they get to it. Why does this matter? Because if you pass it every single time, your OL will fail big time and eventually you won't be passing anymore because your QB will be on the bench with the training staff getting medical attention.

Running is not irrelevant, its just not as important as passing in today's game, but it has a place, there's no reasonable debate about that.
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zombieslayer
14 years ago
Zero - You're not getting what I'm saying at all.

The effectiveness of your running game has no relevance in winning a Super Bowl. As Dexter clearly stated:

Top D comes before either Passing or Running. The higher your D is ranked the better your chances. Running is not at all like that. The average Super Bowl winner has a middle ranked running game for the last 20 years.



So in simple English, first you want a D that RULES. Then a QB that RULES. It doesn't matter if your Running Backs RULE or if they SUCK. Either way, with a top D and a top QB, you have a good shot at winning the Super Bowl.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Zero - You're not getting what I'm saying at all.

The effectiveness of your running game has no relevance in winning a Super Bowl. As Dexter clearly stated:

Top D comes before either Passing or Running. The higher your D is ranked the better your chances. Running is not at all like that. The average Super Bowl winner has a middle ranked running game for the last 20 years.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



So in simple English, first you want a D that RULES. Then a QB that RULES. It doesn't matter if your Running Backs RULE or if they SUCK. Either way, with a top D and a top QB, you have a good shot at winning the Super Bowl.



And you're plainly not reading what I've said, at all.
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zombieslayer
14 years ago
This is the thing, I'm not at all disagreeing with that point. I had that discussion earlier with Pack93z. I agree. You still need to hand the ball off.

My whole point is that it doesn't matter if your RBs are good or if they suck. That's the whole point I was making. Not that we don't need to hand the ball off.
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