macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
OK, special teams can't be as bad as I expectl everytime they get on the field if Masthay is close to setting the net punting average record for the Pack. Part of that is Masthay's kicking, but part of that is also due to the coverage teams. So, my expectation is one or two bad plays (like the 71 yd KO return) are coloring my perception of a fairly decent year by the ST unit.


Green Bay Earlier this season, it appeared first-year punter Tim Masthay's tenure in Green Bay would be a short one.

He got off to a shaky start and in Week 3 posted a net average of 19.0 yards against the Chicago Bears, thanks in part to Devin Hester's 62-yard touchdown return.

Fans were calling for a change, and coach Mike McCarthy made it clear Masthay needed to improve to keep his job.

The punter did exactly that, beginning with a superlative game against the New York Jets on Oct. 31, when he posted averages of 44.0 (gross) and 41.5 (net) and helped the Packers win the field position battle and the game, 9-0.

At Detroit on Dec. 12, Masthay became the first punter in franchise history to post a 50-yard gross average (50.3) in a game with eight or more attempts, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

Still, it came as a bit of a surprise Monday when McCarthy said Masthay had a chance to break the Packers' single-season record for net average (since 1976, when the NFL started keeping the statistic).

"Some of our people have looked into that," said special teams coordinator Shawn Slocum. "From what I can tell, the greatest net punt (average) we've had for a season is 37.6."

With only the regular-season finale against the Bears remaining, Masthay's net average is 37.8.

"We need to finish strong," Slocum said. "(Tim) has done a great job the last portion of the season. He has continued to improve and we've limited the number of returns our opponents have had."

Craig Hentrich holds the Packers record for gross average in a season (45.0 in 1997), and Slocum said he thought Hentrich also had the best net average. The team lists only records for gross average in its media guide.

However, according to the statistical reference book "Green Bay Packers: A Measure of Greatness," Jerry Norton posted a 39.2 net average in 1963.

Injury reportMcCarthy will be without the services of fullback Korey Hall (knee) and safety Atari Bigby (groin) this week after both were knocked out of the Giants game.

Hall has been battling a knee injury for awhile and has been inactive two of the last six games. He is one of 12 starters who have missed at least one game this season.

Bigby, meanwhile, is on the next chapter of his nightmare season. Ankle and hamstring injuries had allowed him to play in only three games prior to the Giants, but he was playing at a high level when he got hurt.

"We put Atari in and we felt comfortable putting him in and he was playing quite a bit for us," defensive coordinator Dom Capers said. "We were going to rotate him, try to get him some time in there. That's tough."

Capers said that both Jarrett Bush and Brandon Underwood would play safety this week as backups to Nick Collins and Charlie Peprah.

Linebacker Frank Zombo (knee) will go through rehab all week and then try to practice Friday to see if he's ready to return. He tried that last week but had a setback on Friday.

The Packers were hoping end Cullen Jenkins (calf) would be back this week, but it's iffy.

Where's Starks?Rookie running back James Starks performed well in his NFL debut on Dec. 5, rushing for a team-high 73 yards in 18 carries against San Francisco.

The next week, Starks gained just 8 yards in six carries against Detroit. He has been inactive the last two weeks.

What happened?

McCarthy hinted that Starks needed to improve his practice habits.

"He needs to compete to get on the (roster)," McCarthy said. "His situation has been exactly the same the last two weeks. James Starks and Dimitri Nance compete for that fifth spot as a running back and as a special teams player and Dimitri is just ahead of him right now."

"(Starks) needs to do a better job throughout the week in preparation and in practice. Until he gets that done, he wont be on the 45."

TrustworthyJames Jones, who has had some outstanding games this season but also has made a number of glaring mistakes, dropped two more passes against the Giants.

He dropped a back-shoulder throw that was a bit low but catchable, and he dropped a deep pass down the sideline that might have gone for a touchdown.

Receivers coach Jimmy Robinson said he hadn't lost faith in Jones.

"Absolutely, I trust James," Robinson said. "He played good football yesterday. He had a couple he'd like to have back. James did a lot of good things in the game. He just had a couple that stood out that hed like to have back. But yeah, I trust James. Hes made too many big plays for us to say I dont trust him."

JSOnline.com wrote:

musccy
13 years ago
Interesting to think about Masthay setting the record. Although his performance in the Jets game stood out as a tremendous game by him, for the most part I haven't really noticed him the rest of the season. I suppose that's a sign that you're not doing too bad as a punter.
macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

Interesting to think about Masthay setting the record. Although his performance in the Jets game stood out as a tremendous game by him, for the most part I haven't really noticed him the rest of the season. I suppose that's a sign that you're not doing too bad as a punter.

"musccy" wrote:



Yeah, I looked at the Det game as good & bad--first punter to ave > 50 yds with 8 or more attempts.

+1 > 50 yds / attempt, -1 (to the team, not Masthay) for the 8 or more attempts. Hope nobody has a shot at that stat again anytime soon.
Greg C.
13 years ago
I'm surprised to hear that Masthay is flirting with the team record, considering that he is only 18th in the league in net average--slightly below the mean. He is 14th in gross average. Considering how poorly he started, though, these rankings are more than respectable. We haven't had an average punter since they shitcanned Jon Ryan.

I would bet on Masthay's numbers suffering in this final game, in cold weather against Devin Hester. I'm expecting 30 yard punts that go out of bounds--and I wouldn't mind if he does that all day.
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tonyagnese
13 years ago
He's had some bad games but overall he's been an upgrade over Kapinos and the crap before him.
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porky88
13 years ago
I still hold my breath every time he punts.
macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

I'm surprised to hear that Masthay is flirting with the team record, considering that he is only 18th in the league in net average--slightly below the mean. He is 14th in gross average. Considering how poorly he started, though, these rankings are more than respectable. We haven't had an average punter since they shitcanned Jon Ryan.

I would bet on Masthay's numbers suffering in this final game, in cold weather against Devin Hester. I'm expecting 30 yard punts that go out of bounds--and I wouldn't mind if he does that all day.

"Greg C." wrote:



Given the # of teams that play in domes or warm weather states, I think the odds are slim for us being among the league leaders in gross/net punting. Cold weather greatly impacts the flight of the ball, not to mention it starts feeling like you're kicking a rock.
yooperfan
13 years ago

I still hold my breath every time he punts.

"porky88" wrote:



Amazingly enough, I don't.
Greg C.
13 years ago

I'm surprised to hear that Masthay is flirting with the team record, considering that he is only 18th in the league in net average--slightly below the mean. He is 14th in gross average. Considering how poorly he started, though, these rankings are more than respectable. We haven't had an average punter since they shitcanned Jon Ryan.

I would bet on Masthay's numbers suffering in this final game, in cold weather against Devin Hester. I'm expecting 30 yard punts that go out of bounds--and I wouldn't mind if he does that all day.

"macbob" wrote:



Given the # of teams that play in domes or warm weather states, I think the odds are slim for us being among the league leaders in gross/net punting. Cold weather greatly impacts the flight of the ball, not to mention it starts feeling like you're kicking a rock.

"Greg C." wrote:



Yes, but the effect on a punter's stats aren't as great as one might think. The Packers have played only three cold weather games this season, with a fourth one coming up this week, but none of them has been THAT cold. Just in the 20s. It doesn't get really bad until the temperature dips down into the teens or single digits, and there is usually only about one game a year like that.

Masthay put up his worst numbers early in the season. Craig Hentrich was among the league leaders when he punted for the Packers, and I think Josh Bidwell gave us one good year too before he flew the coop. The biggest problem is that it's hard for a cold weather team to hang onto good punters and kickers because they hate the cold.
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macbob
  • macbob
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

I'm surprised to hear that Masthay is flirting with the team record, considering that he is only 18th in the league in net average--slightly below the mean. He is 14th in gross average. Considering how poorly he started, though, these rankings are more than respectable. We haven't had an average punter since they shitcanned Jon Ryan.

I would bet on Masthay's numbers suffering in this final game, in cold weather against Devin Hester. I'm expecting 30 yard punts that go out of bounds--and I wouldn't mind if he does that all day.

"Greg C." wrote:



Given the # of teams that play in domes or warm weather states, I think the odds are slim for us being among the league leaders in gross/net punting. Cold weather greatly impacts the flight of the ball, not to mention it starts feeling like you're kicking a rock.

"macbob" wrote:



Yes, but the effect on a punter's stats aren't as great as one might think. The Packers have played only three cold weather games this season, with a fourth one coming up this week, but none of them has been THAT cold. Just in the 20s. It doesn't get really bad until the temperature dips down into the teens or single digits, and there is usually only about one game a year like that.

Masthay put up his worst numbers early in the season. Craig Hentrich was among the league leaders when he punted for the Packers, and I think Josh Bidwell gave us one good year too before he flew the coop. The biggest problem is that it's hard for a cold weather team to hang onto good punters and kickers because they hate the cold.

"Greg C." wrote:



http://espn.go.com/espn/sportscience/index?mId=5939565  - the link is to the video, but for whatever reason it just goes to the Sports Science index. You'll have to select the Cold Weather video which is currently the second in line), but it IS an impact. The impact should be around 2 yds at 25 degree and 1 yd at 40 degrees.

Brenkus didn't discuss it, but it would also impact hang times, which would also contribute to a lower net average than a punter in a dome/warm weather stadium. 2 yds per kick for 25% of the games played (assuming 4 out of 16) can drive your above average punter into the lower levels of the NFL.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=563  ) had an analysis of cold weather on punting, but wasn't looking at the distance, etc. They looked at the number of Pro Bowl punters from dome, warm weather, moderate weather, and cold weather stadiums since 1970. His cold-weather teams were NE, NYG, NYJ, Phi, KC, StL, Minn (pre-dome), GB, CHI, Det (pre-dome), Cle, Pit, Buf, and Cinn. The cold-weather teams had 1/2 as many Pro Bowl punters than would be expected based on the number of teams, with the moderate and warm weather teams producing 1/2 as many more than expected.

In any event, it's not a HUGE impact in distance, but in the statistics world of the punter it can have a HUGE impact in your place compared to the rest of the punters in the league.
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