Zero2Cool
14 years ago
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/111331774.html 

Green Bay The Green Bay Packers have one of the best defenses in the NFL.

But nearly all of their defensive players, including 2009 defensive player of the year Charles Woodson, are questioning how to play the game right now.

The rules used to be pretty clear. No spearing, no clotheslines or horse collars, no late kill shots on the quarterback just to make him ache.

But now the NFL is handing out fines, even if there's not a flag, for helmet-to-helmet collisions or anything that looks like launching or looks violent.

A tally of the most publicized fines this season shows the league has fined players approximately $500,000 for illegal hits.

That has caught the attention of everyone who plays defense for a living, especially someone like Woodson, who barely recognizes the game and the rules after 13 years in the league.

"It's changing right before your eyes," said Woodson. "When do you remember every hit being questioned? When you hear the commentators, they say, 'Oh, that was a good clean hit.' You never heard that before."

Pro Bowl safety Nick Collins is appealing the $50,000 fine for his hit on Dallas wide receiver Roy Williams on Nov. 7. Williams started to trip right before the tackle, and Collins said he had no time to drop his center of gravity so their helmets collided.

"It was a bang, bang play," said Collins. "I led with my shoulder but by me hitting him in his back, his head came back so it looked like we had helmet to helmet.

"I don't know how else I could have played that play different."

After the game, Williams said the NFL should not fine Collins, that it wasn't a dirty play, that it was just football.

But Collins got the letter from the NFL anyway.

"It seems like they're going off the outcome of the play," said Woodson. "If a guy ends up hurt or seems a little out of it, woozy or whatever, they say it is a personal foul and a fine. It's not the intent of every player to knock a guy out. They're just going to throw the flag. I don't think that's fair to the defensive guys.

"Your job is to go get the ball. And I think they're taking that way from guys."

Pulling up

Because of the crackdown, the Packers admit there have been instances when they pulled back or pulled up to avoid an illegal hit.

Collins had a shot at Atlanta running back Michael Turner last Sunday, but as Turner started to go down, Collins had to follow.

"I had to lower my target to go lower, just to avoid hitting him in the head," said Collins.

Safety Charlie Peprah also could have made a big hit on Falcons tight end Tony Gonzalez, but Peprah held up because he didn't want a fine. That resulted in a few extra yards for the tight end.

"You don't know how you're supposed to hit a guy anymore," said Woodson. "I don't think it's clearly defined. Your helmets are going to touch sometimes. That doesn't mean you tried to hit a guy's head. I don't agree with the way it is going at all."

The NFL distributed an instructional video a few weeks ago illustrating what it considered a good hit and one that was illegal. It was narrated by Ray Anderson, NFL executive vice president of football operations. He said last week that the league wasn't singling out Pittsburgh linebacker James Harrison, even though Harrison has been fined four times this year. Harrison briefly considered retirement because of the fines.

"Illegal hits to the head of an opponent will not be tolerated. A player is accountable for what he hits," Anderson said on the video. "We all accept that football is a physical and tough game. But players must play under control. If a player launching into an opponent misses his aiming point, he will nevertheless be responsible for what he hits. Initial contact in the neck or head area with a forearm, shoulder or helmet is prohibited."

Many players still find the rules confusing. They find many of the collisions simply unavoidable.

San Francisco linebacker Patrick Willis, who is ranked eighth in tackles and led the league in that category in 2009 and 2007, said hits to the head are not intentional.

"We feel like the game is being taken from us a little bit," said Willis. "But I know I can't think about it a lot. I just think, what can I do to get this guy down?"

Many high-profile players have criticized the crackdown, including Chicago linebacker Brian Urlacher. "What can you do, though? It's a dictatorship," he said last month, referring to Commissioner Roger Goodell.

"Now you literally think about it," said Woodson. "You're going in on the quarterback to make a hit, none of your helmet can even touch his face mask. And everybody - well not everybody, because A-Rod (Aaron Rodgers) can't seem to get that call - but if you touch a guy, it's automatic."

Last month, Packers linebacker Clay Matthews, the NFL sack leader, said he wasn't going to change the way he played.

"You're just trying to get him down," he said. "You've got to think about head across, wrapping up, drive your feet, just get him down. Any tackle in the NFL is a good tackle. I'm going to keep doing things my way.

"Hopefully I don't get fined or make an illegal hit, but I can't stop playing the way I do - just relentless, getting after the ball carrier, trying to get him down.

"I'd go for the de-cleater any day."

That always has been the mentality of an exceptional defensive player.

"Bring him down. By any means necessary," said Packers linebacker Desmond Bishop. "If you've got to hit him low or hit him high or reach out and grab him, scratch him, bite him, whatever. Take him down."

Green Bay's defensive position coaches have addressed the issue, although more from the standpoint of avoiding a penalty, which would hurt the team, said players.

Nothing you can do

During the game, referees also have been warning the players on close calls.

Otherwise, it is up to the player to change. And they're pleading for time to adjust.

"You can't practice it," said Bishop. "It is inches away from being legal and illegal. In about 80% of situations, it can be avoided. The rest is gray area. If he ducks the hit, there's nothing you can do."

If there's nothing you can do, why get fined?

"You shouldn't," Bishop said.

One of the biggest complaints the defensive players have is the issue of how to play within the rules in a sport that is so uneven. There is no other sport in the world that features such a wide range of heights and weights and body types all directly fighting one another.

"I'm 190 pounds, and there's a tight end who is 260 coming up the seam," said Peprah. "That's just physics. You've got to add some type of force. But they don't want you to launch yourself. If you hit him too high, you don't want a helmet to helmet. It's just too much, especially when you grew up playing to hit a certain way. It's hard to deprogram yourself.

"There's a few where the receiver has his back to me and I'd be lying if I say it didn't cross my mind on how to attack that."

Peprah remembers a play in the New York Jets game where he missed the chance of making a highlight-reel hit and forcing the fumble - the very kind of play a guy wants to make to keep his starting job.

Changes approach

"Before all of this happened, I probably would have launched myself with my feet," said Peprah. "But I stayed on my feet and just tried to jar the ball loose. Looking back I thought, 'Why did I do that?' In the back of my mind, I didn't want to get any unnecessary (roughness) calls. And it's getting worse. Even if the hit is legal, I think they're flagging if it just looks violent.

"It makes you second-guess your aggressiveness, and whenever you do that you slow down. You'll end up seeing a lot of guys shying away from the hit and the guy is going to break the tackle and end up running for a touchdown."

In the last 20 years or so, most of the rule changes have been in favor of the offense. That's also an issue for players.

"At least be fair about it," said defensive end Cullen Jenkins. "Cut blocking has been a big issue for defenders around the league. I got my hand broke this year on a cut block. That's pretty much the only thing that we ask to be protected by and we don't get it. There's a new rule every year to protect the offense, but for defense, nobody really cares."

Players also feel it is unfair that their fines go to NFL charities, but they have no say in which ones.

"That's another issue," said Collins. "It's a bunch of guys who really haven't played the game of football making these decisions."

They also wonder how Tennessee cornerback Cortland Finnegan and Houston wide receiver Andre Johnson can get into a brawl as they did last Sunday - with punches being thrown - and get fined only $25,000, a fraction of what some illegal hits have drawn.

"You've been doing something your whole life, you can't just expect it to change overnight," said Bishop.

Maybe the NFL is cracking down because it wants the offensive players to remain on the field. If the NFL is headed for an 18-game schedule, it can't lose its big-name, fantasy league players. That concept has drawn even more criticism.

"The league doesn't care about us anyway," said 13-year veteran Hines Ward, the leading receiver in Steelers history. "They don't care about the safety of the game. If the league was so concerned about the safety, why are you adding two more games on?"


UserPostedImage
gotarace
14 years ago
The speed of hits and the quick fines by the nfl sure scares the hell out of any player on defense. Where is all this fine money going anyhow? Is it a fund for players hurt during the course of the game? If this crap of any hit with the helmet continues, soon we will be watching flag football.
Smart As a Horse
Hung Like Einstein
tonyagnese
14 years ago
I recently did a paper on this topic and it's pretty staggering how many former players are suffering from complications due to their time in the NFL. Also..I think something as simple as learning how to wrap up the ball carrier would prevent a lot of these problems.

However...I do think the NFL is too strict, I've seen numerous hits that were completely legal and a personal foul penalty was called with a fine from the league. It's getting ridiculous..
blank
mi_keys
14 years ago

I recently did a paper on this topic and it's pretty staggering how many former players are suffering from complications due to their time in the NFL. Also..I think something as simple as learning how to wrap up the ball carrier would prevent a lot of these problems.

However...I do think the NFL is too strict, I've seen numerous hits that were completely legal and a personal foul penalty was called with a fine from the league. It's getting ridiculous..

"tonyagnese" wrote:



It's scary some of the health problems that former players play, seeing some of our past heros barely able to walk. Still, a lot of the former players are even calling the NFL out on this overstrict bullshit.

Oh, and why are we going to 18 games again?
Born and bred a cheesehead
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Beats the hell out of a Vikings signing
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : Baltimore Ravens now have signed former Packers CB Jaire Alexander.
dfosterf (14-Jun) : TWO magnificent strikes for touchdowns. Lose the pennstate semigeezer non nfl backup
dfosterf (14-Jun) : There was minicamp Thursday. My man Taylor Engersma threw
dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
wpr (10-Jun) : That's awesome Martha.
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : How's the ayahuasca tea he makes, Martha?
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : Turns out he like older women
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : I wasn't supposed to say anything, but yes the word is out and we are happy 😂😂😂
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : I might be late on this but Aaron Rodgers is now married
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : Well he can always ask his brother for pointers
Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : Bo Melton taking some reps at CB as well as WR
Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : key transactions coming today at 3pm that will consume more cap in 2025
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jaire played in just 34 of a possible 68 games since the start of the 2021 season
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : reported, but not expected to practice
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jenkins has REPORTED for mandatory camp
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : I really thought he'd play for Packers.
buckeyepackfan (9-Jun) : Packers releasing Jaire Alexander.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : (Context: he wants his defense to create turnovers)
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : Giants DC Shane Bowen tells players to “be a damn pirate."
dfosterf (6-Jun) : Semper fi !
Cheesey (6-Jun) : This is why I have so much respect for those that have gone through battles
Cheesey (6-Jun) : I can't even imagine what that would have been like
wpr (6-Jun) : "Come on, you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever?"
wpr (6-Jun) : Facing a line of machine guns 2 time medal of Honor recipient, First Sergeant Dan Daly told his men,
wpr (6-Jun) : Another detachment went into the Belleau Wood.
wpr (6-Jun) : On the 6th the Marines took Hill 142 but suffered terrible losses.
wpr (6-Jun) : It’s time to remember dfoster’s Marine brothers in Belleau Wood. The battle went on from June 1-26. Nearly 10,000 casualties.
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett have signed with the PACK
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : he won't be wearing #12, maybe he will wear number two
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : He will fail this season, should have retired
Mucky Tundra (5-Jun) : Thus the cycle of Hall of Fame Packer QBs going to the Jets and then the Vikings is broken
bboystyle (5-Jun) : Rodgers to steelers on 1 year contract
Zero2Cool (5-Jun) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.
Martha Careful (5-Jun) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
dfosterf (4-Jun) : We old Martha.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Jun / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

16-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

15-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

14-Jun / Around The NFL / beast

14-Jun / Community Welcome! / dfosterf

13-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

13-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Adam

12-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.