Zero2Cool
14 years ago
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/111331774.html 

Green Bay The Green Bay Packers have one of the best defenses in the NFL.

But nearly all of their defensive players, including 2009 defensive player of the year Charles Woodson, are questioning how to play the game right now.

The rules used to be pretty clear. No spearing, no clotheslines or horse collars, no late kill shots on the quarterback just to make him ache.

But now the NFL is handing out fines, even if there's not a flag, for helmet-to-helmet collisions or anything that looks like launching or looks violent.

A tally of the most publicized fines this season shows the league has fined players approximately $500,000 for illegal hits.

That has caught the attention of everyone who plays defense for a living, especially someone like Woodson, who barely recognizes the game and the rules after 13 years in the league.

"It's changing right before your eyes," said Woodson. "When do you remember every hit being questioned? When you hear the commentators, they say, 'Oh, that was a good clean hit.' You never heard that before."

Pro Bowl safety Nick Collins is appealing the $50,000 fine for his hit on Dallas wide receiver Roy Williams on Nov. 7. Williams started to trip right before the tackle, and Collins said he had no time to drop his center of gravity so their helmets collided.

"It was a bang, bang play," said Collins. "I led with my shoulder but by me hitting him in his back, his head came back so it looked like we had helmet to helmet.

"I don't know how else I could have played that play different."

After the game, Williams said the NFL should not fine Collins, that it wasn't a dirty play, that it was just football.

But Collins got the letter from the NFL anyway.

"It seems like they're going off the outcome of the play," said Woodson. "If a guy ends up hurt or seems a little out of it, woozy or whatever, they say it is a personal foul and a fine. It's not the intent of every player to knock a guy out. They're just going to throw the flag. I don't think that's fair to the defensive guys.

"Your job is to go get the ball. And I think they're taking that way from guys."

Pulling up

Because of the crackdown, the Packers admit there have been instances when they pulled back or pulled up to avoid an illegal hit.

Collins had a shot at Atlanta running back Michael Turner last Sunday, but as Turner started to go down, Collins had to follow.

"I had to lower my target to go lower, just to avoid hitting him in the head," said Collins.

Safety Charlie Peprah also could have made a big hit on Falcons tight end Tony Gonzalez, but Peprah held up because he didn't want a fine. That resulted in a few extra yards for the tight end.

"You don't know how you're supposed to hit a guy anymore," said Woodson. "I don't think it's clearly defined. Your helmets are going to touch sometimes. That doesn't mean you tried to hit a guy's head. I don't agree with the way it is going at all."

The NFL distributed an instructional video a few weeks ago illustrating what it considered a good hit and one that was illegal. It was narrated by Ray Anderson, NFL executive vice president of football operations. He said last week that the league wasn't singling out Pittsburgh linebacker James Harrison, even though Harrison has been fined four times this year. Harrison briefly considered retirement because of the fines.

"Illegal hits to the head of an opponent will not be tolerated. A player is accountable for what he hits," Anderson said on the video. "We all accept that football is a physical and tough game. But players must play under control. If a player launching into an opponent misses his aiming point, he will nevertheless be responsible for what he hits. Initial contact in the neck or head area with a forearm, shoulder or helmet is prohibited."

Many players still find the rules confusing. They find many of the collisions simply unavoidable.

San Francisco linebacker Patrick Willis, who is ranked eighth in tackles and led the league in that category in 2009 and 2007, said hits to the head are not intentional.

"We feel like the game is being taken from us a little bit," said Willis. "But I know I can't think about it a lot. I just think, what can I do to get this guy down?"

Many high-profile players have criticized the crackdown, including Chicago linebacker Brian Urlacher. "What can you do, though? It's a dictatorship," he said last month, referring to Commissioner Roger Goodell.

"Now you literally think about it," said Woodson. "You're going in on the quarterback to make a hit, none of your helmet can even touch his face mask. And everybody - well not everybody, because A-Rod (Aaron Rodgers) can't seem to get that call - but if you touch a guy, it's automatic."

Last month, Packers linebacker Clay Matthews, the NFL sack leader, said he wasn't going to change the way he played.

"You're just trying to get him down," he said. "You've got to think about head across, wrapping up, drive your feet, just get him down. Any tackle in the NFL is a good tackle. I'm going to keep doing things my way.

"Hopefully I don't get fined or make an illegal hit, but I can't stop playing the way I do - just relentless, getting after the ball carrier, trying to get him down.

"I'd go for the de-cleater any day."

That always has been the mentality of an exceptional defensive player.

"Bring him down. By any means necessary," said Packers linebacker Desmond Bishop. "If you've got to hit him low or hit him high or reach out and grab him, scratch him, bite him, whatever. Take him down."

Green Bay's defensive position coaches have addressed the issue, although more from the standpoint of avoiding a penalty, which would hurt the team, said players.

Nothing you can do

During the game, referees also have been warning the players on close calls.

Otherwise, it is up to the player to change. And they're pleading for time to adjust.

"You can't practice it," said Bishop. "It is inches away from being legal and illegal. In about 80% of situations, it can be avoided. The rest is gray area. If he ducks the hit, there's nothing you can do."

If there's nothing you can do, why get fined?

"You shouldn't," Bishop said.

One of the biggest complaints the defensive players have is the issue of how to play within the rules in a sport that is so uneven. There is no other sport in the world that features such a wide range of heights and weights and body types all directly fighting one another.

"I'm 190 pounds, and there's a tight end who is 260 coming up the seam," said Peprah. "That's just physics. You've got to add some type of force. But they don't want you to launch yourself. If you hit him too high, you don't want a helmet to helmet. It's just too much, especially when you grew up playing to hit a certain way. It's hard to deprogram yourself.

"There's a few where the receiver has his back to me and I'd be lying if I say it didn't cross my mind on how to attack that."

Peprah remembers a play in the New York Jets game where he missed the chance of making a highlight-reel hit and forcing the fumble - the very kind of play a guy wants to make to keep his starting job.

Changes approach

"Before all of this happened, I probably would have launched myself with my feet," said Peprah. "But I stayed on my feet and just tried to jar the ball loose. Looking back I thought, 'Why did I do that?' In the back of my mind, I didn't want to get any unnecessary (roughness) calls. And it's getting worse. Even if the hit is legal, I think they're flagging if it just looks violent.

"It makes you second-guess your aggressiveness, and whenever you do that you slow down. You'll end up seeing a lot of guys shying away from the hit and the guy is going to break the tackle and end up running for a touchdown."

In the last 20 years or so, most of the rule changes have been in favor of the offense. That's also an issue for players.

"At least be fair about it," said defensive end Cullen Jenkins. "Cut blocking has been a big issue for defenders around the league. I got my hand broke this year on a cut block. That's pretty much the only thing that we ask to be protected by and we don't get it. There's a new rule every year to protect the offense, but for defense, nobody really cares."

Players also feel it is unfair that their fines go to NFL charities, but they have no say in which ones.

"That's another issue," said Collins. "It's a bunch of guys who really haven't played the game of football making these decisions."

They also wonder how Tennessee cornerback Cortland Finnegan and Houston wide receiver Andre Johnson can get into a brawl as they did last Sunday - with punches being thrown - and get fined only $25,000, a fraction of what some illegal hits have drawn.

"You've been doing something your whole life, you can't just expect it to change overnight," said Bishop.

Maybe the NFL is cracking down because it wants the offensive players to remain on the field. If the NFL is headed for an 18-game schedule, it can't lose its big-name, fantasy league players. That concept has drawn even more criticism.

"The league doesn't care about us anyway," said 13-year veteran Hines Ward, the leading receiver in Steelers history. "They don't care about the safety of the game. If the league was so concerned about the safety, why are you adding two more games on?"


UserPostedImage
gotarace
14 years ago
The speed of hits and the quick fines by the nfl sure scares the hell out of any player on defense. Where is all this fine money going anyhow? Is it a fund for players hurt during the course of the game? If this crap of any hit with the helmet continues, soon we will be watching flag football.
Smart As a Horse
Hung Like Einstein
tonyagnese
14 years ago
I recently did a paper on this topic and it's pretty staggering how many former players are suffering from complications due to their time in the NFL. Also..I think something as simple as learning how to wrap up the ball carrier would prevent a lot of these problems.

However...I do think the NFL is too strict, I've seen numerous hits that were completely legal and a personal foul penalty was called with a fine from the league. It's getting ridiculous..
blank
mi_keys
14 years ago

I recently did a paper on this topic and it's pretty staggering how many former players are suffering from complications due to their time in the NFL. Also..I think something as simple as learning how to wrap up the ball carrier would prevent a lot of these problems.

However...I do think the NFL is too strict, I've seen numerous hits that were completely legal and a personal foul penalty was called with a fine from the league. It's getting ridiculous..

"tonyagnese" wrote:



It's scary some of the health problems that former players play, seeing some of our past heros barely able to walk. Still, a lot of the former players are even calling the NFL out on this overstrict bullshit.

Oh, and why are we going to 18 games again?
Born and bred a cheesehead
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (1h) : If you wanna post about the Super Bowl, please, by all means, open a topic. They are free this month! 😁
Zero2Cool (1h) : There doesn't need to be a topic. There's a playoff prediction thread.
packerfanoutwest (1h) : and there no SB contest over in the other Packer forum, either
buckeyepackfan (1h) : #2Officially Retires!
beast (2h) : Probably no SB topic as people are wore out talking about the Chiefs, Refs and Eagles
Zero2Cool (2h) : Packers reportedly have their new LB coach, promoting Sean Duggan to that role
Zero2Cool (6h) : WR Cooper Kupp is being traded.
packerfanoutwest (17h) : why is there no SB Prediction topic?
Zero2Cool (21h) : Anthony Perkins spent 2024 as a defensive quality-control coach with the Packers.
Zero2Cool (21h) : Packers lose another assistant.
Zero2Cool (3-Feb) : Defensive Player of the Year and Browns star Myles Garrett has requested a trade.
Zero2Cool (3-Feb) : deleted all my browser history and autofill and passwords. gonna be fun!
packerfanoutwest (3-Feb) : too funny
packerfanoutwest (3-Feb) : Lions QB Jared Goff was the offensive MVP
packerfanoutwest (3-Feb) : for the Pro Bowl, which is flag football
Zero2Cool (2-Feb) : Rather, the murder WAS covered up to prevent ...
Zero2Cool (2-Feb) : JFK murder was a cover-up to prevent war with Cuba/Russia.
Martha Careful (1-Feb) : I have always admired the pluck of the man
Zero2Cool (1-Feb) : I remember thinking he was going to be something good.
Mucky Tundra (1-Feb) : The Dualing Banjo!
Zero2Cool (31-Jan) : Jets have named Chris Banjo as their special teams coordinator, Former Packers player
Zero2Cool (31-Jan) : Jaguars have hired Anthony Campanile as their DC. We lose coach
Zero2Cool (30-Jan) : QB coach Sean Mannion
Zero2Cool (30-Jan) : DL Coach DeMarcus Covington
dfosterf (30-Jan) : from ft Belvoir, Quantico and points south. Somber reminder of this tragedy at Reagan Nat Airport
dfosterf (30-Jan) : So eerily quiet here in Alexandria. I live in the flight path of commercial craft coming from the south and west, plus the military craft
dfosterf (30-Jan) : So eeri
Mucky Tundra (30-Jan) : Now that's a thought, maybe they're looking at the college ranks? Maybe not head coaches but DC/assistant DCs with league experience?
beast (30-Jan) : College Coaches wouldn't want that publicly, as it would hurt recruiting and they might not get the job.
beast (30-Jan) : I thought they were supposed to publicly announce them, at least the NFL ones. Hafley was from college, so I believe different rules.
Mucky Tundra (30-Jan) : Who knows who they're interviewing? I mean, nobody knew about Hafley and then out of nowhere he was hired
beast (30-Jan) : I wonder what's taking so long with hiring a DL coach, 2 of the 3 known to interview have already been hired elsewhere.
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Packers coach Matt LaFleur hires Luke Getsy as senior assistant, extends Rich Bisaccia's deal
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Chiefs again huh? I guess another Super Bowl I'll be finding something else to do.
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : Chiefs Eagles...again...sigh
dfosterf (27-Jan) : Happy Birthday Dave!
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : happy birthday dhazer
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Exactly buck...Washington came up with the ball. It is just a shitty coincidence one week later
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : I forgot, they corrected the call a week later. Lol btw HAPPY BIRTHDAY dhazer!
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : That brings up the question, why wasn't Nixon down by contact? I think that was the point Kanata was making.
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : Turnovers rule, win the turnover battle, win the game.
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : well, he was
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Eagles down by contact on the fumble....fuck you NFL
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : I think this games over
beast (26-Jan) : Eagles sure get a lot of fumbles on kickoffs
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : This game looks too big for Washington
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : that being said, The Ravens are the Browns
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : Browns, Dolphins have longest AFC Championship droughts
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : As of today, Cowboys have longest NFC Championship drought,
beast (26-Jan) : Someone pointed out, with Raiders hiring Carroll, the division games between Carroll and Jim Harbaugh are back on (who can whine more games)
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
Eagles
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

1-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

1-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

27-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

25-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

25-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

25-Jan / Random Babble / Martha Careful

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

20-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.