macbob
14 years ago


Macbob - that's condescending.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Zombie-

I was not meaning to be condescending with my post. I was having a little fun with the Maddenites Maddening pun and should have used a smiley face. I apologize if I was offensive.


We lost the game because of a fluke fumble. That's it. 35 pass plays, 11 runs was a pretty good combination. It worked. Had Aaron not fumbled, it would be 24-20 and we wouldn't be having this argument, which is pretty much beating a dead horse.

If we play Atlanta in the Playoffs, you can bet Mike McCarthy will do about the same percentage of pass to run because Atlanta's weakness is defending the pass. I'm very glad Mike McCarthy understands that, and thus I have been backing him in 2010.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Zombie-

I agree with you 100%. You will find no post from me saying otherwise about the Atl game. We had over 400 yds total offense. The Atl defense was weakest against the pass, and we exploited it.


And for the love of God, read my post instead of mocking it. I used FACTS to show my point. The pass was working. Except for that fluke fumble. That was a fluke.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Zombie-

I think this is the source of the problem, because I DIDNT READ YOUR POST. I read the first post from Cheesy where he said:

If I had been Mike McCarthy, i would have given up totally on the run and went with the 5 WR set the whole game. Too many 1st downs were wasted on runs that got us nothing.

Cheesy wrote:



Frankly, I stopped reading your post when I saw the +1 you gave to Cheesy for his comments, and moved on to the next post.

I was referring to the first post in the thread with my comments (my fault for not quoting from the original post).

Cheesy-

I should have ended my statement with a winky smiley face, because that was the how I meant my comment about glad you werent Mike McCarthy to be taken--I was being a smartass. I apologize if I offended you with my comment.

And, in true smartass fashion, I would also like to take the opportunity to offer another reason for an effective running game helping improve your passing game:

An effective running game can help force the defense to bring one of the safetys up to play the run, putting 8 men in the box and creating the opportunity to get Jennings/Driver/Nelson one-on-one deep, improving our Madden-attackyness. ::wink:

In any event, Zombie/Cheesy (and anyone else I offended with my poorly quoted/smiley-faced post), I apologize. I did not mean my post to sound condescending. I value the thoughts expressed on the board, even though I dont always agree with them.
Cheesey
  • Cheesey
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
14 years ago
No problem MacBob!
I knew my idea of the 5 wide is kind of "out there". But in that game, i figured why NOT do it? The run gave us nothing, at least TRY something else.
That's all i meant by my statement.
I wasn't offended.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
  • Cheesey
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
14 years ago

Wow. I said it 4 times. Maybe I have to say it 5 times.

This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.

OK. Now that we're clear (hopefully) that we're talking about the Atlanta Falcons game, please continue.

"zombieslayer" wrote:


Hey Zombie......thanks for clarifying that!!! LOLOL!!!

Yes, that's what i was saying, which some may have missed. You sure made the point FOR me! LOLOL!!!
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago

Wow. I said it 4 times. Maybe I have to say it 5 times.

This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.

OK. Now that we're clear (hopefully) that we're talking about the Atlanta Falcons game, please continue.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Quit whining. Some of us see our purpose in life to go off on tangents and ignore key arguments.

:)

And besides, the atlanta game is over. its time to rant about the future some more.

Next thing you'll be telling Nonstop to stop adding sex to every thread.

:pottytrain2:
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Pack93z
14 years ago

Wow. I said it 4 times. Maybe I have to say it 5 times.

This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.
This thread is about the game VERSUS THE ATLANTA FALCONS ONLY.

OK. Now that we're clear (hopefully) that we're talking about the Atlanta Falcons game, please continue.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Here lies the rub.. Zombie was a reputation of pass happy offenses.. I could probably find near a dozen threads were it isn't game specific.. it is a general philosophy that he holds. Regardless of the opponent, conditions, game situation.. etc.

He wants to throw the damn ball.

Then he picks a thread and tries to sell his concept again looking at only this game... lol... then he wonders why eggheads like me argue it on its principles.. lol.

Like he is baiting us.. then switches it to a single game. :pottytrain2:

Then cranks when we fail to comply. lol.

Just for good measure.. we have to run the damn ball.. even in this damn game.. we couldn't we lost. ;)

There... now watch the zombie cheesehead go off.

UserPostedImage
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
macbob
14 years ago
PackZ-

That picture alone is worth a +1. :icon_smile:

The way I view it is similar to the way that some of TT's critics view his not being more active in FA markets--you're taking away one of the tools/weapons you have available if you don't have a credible running game. You can do OK, but there's only so far that you're going to go.

You are much better off if you can force the defense to have to take away both the running game AND the passing game, rather than allowing the defense to concentrate on taking away only the passing game.

I think Zombie should change his avatar... :thumbleft:
macbob
14 years ago

No problem MacBob!
I knew my idea of the 5 wide is kind of "out there". But in that game, i figured why NOT do it? The run gave us nothing, at least TRY something else.
That's all i meant by my statement.
I wasn't offended.

"Cheesey" wrote:



What REALLY bit us this game was incredibly sucky field position. We were able to move the ball OK, we were just starting deep in our end of the field over and over and over again.

Was MM's playcalling perfect? No, but it really wasn't bad and, considering the other side is doing it's best to nubetube your plays, I thought he did a pretty good job of attacking the Falcons.

I did grow concerned as the game went on that the Falcons were providing a blueprint to other teams on how to defense our empty backfields--they blitzed from Clifton's side and came clean. On 99% of those plays Aaron Rodgers had almost no time and threw right back to the receiver on that side.

It was getting to be VERY predictable. I was calling out what was going to happen on the play (blitz, throw to xxx on the left) whenever we went into an empty backfield. If the CB on that side of the field had jumped the route, they could potentially have had a couple of picks.
zombieslayer
14 years ago
No Pack93z. I said we BETTER be able to run against the Giants as they're #1 against the pass in the NFL. But Cheesey was talking the Atlanta game and only the Atlanta game. He said so specifically in the title.

If you want to argue other games, let's do it on another thread.

I've been scolded several times for taking threads off topic so now I'm scolding others for taking this thread off topic.

This specific topic = 5 WR set vs Atlanta.

The thing is, the game isn't over. We may be facing them in the Playoffs. I know Cheesey wasn't being literal about the 5 WR set every single play but he did note it worked so when we face Atlanta in the Playoffs, let's use it more. Falcon weakness = pass defense. Let's exploit it.

Macbob - It's all good.

The thing is, I've never played Madden in my life. I've just studied the game and as I'm a historian, in football, there are trends that seem to work until they get countered.
My man Donald Driver
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macbob
14 years ago

The thing is, the game isn't over. We may be facing them in the Playoffs. I know Cheesey wasn't being literal about the 5 WR set every single play but he did note it worked so when we face Atlanta in the Playoffs, let's use it more. Falcon weakness = pass defense. Let's exploit it.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



I'm OK with exploit Atlanta's pass defense, but I didn't like the way the empty backfields were going in the second half.

Atlanta looked like they had made an effective adjustment, and were coming clean at Rodgers from the left side of our line.

I didn't tape the game, so I can't go back and look at the around 20 (I think) empty backfields we had (I'm including the 4 WR/1 TE empty backfields, too), but my feeling during the game was that Rodgers was getting almost no time to get the ball off. A LCB crowding the line a little more than the Falcons defender was (he was about 10 yds off the line) could have caused some significant problems from those formations.
macbob
14 years ago

Macbob - It's all good.

The thing is, I've never played Madden in my life. I've just studied the game and as I'm a historian, in football, there are trends that seem to work until they get countered.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Zombie-I'm just being an a**hole with my Madden comments. I find your discussions intelligent (which is one reason I answer them as much as I do).

I'm not a run/run/run guy. I'm ok (especially with the rule set that they have now in the NFL) with a preponderence of passing.

Looking at the game (from a historical trends perspective), if your tendencies run too far in one direction or the other, it lets teams game plan against those tendencies, and then your offense starts struggling. There are exceptions (most of them from Warner-QB'd teams), but if you get too much above a 60-40 split, the w/l record seems to start dropping fast, and when you get close to a 70-30 split it start getting abysmal.

Weve had some discussions on what came first--runs at the end of the games by teams leading and passes at the end of games by teams losing skewing the ratios. The argument is basically that coaches (McCarthy) go run-crazy at the end of the games that their teams are leading, getting conservative to eat up clock and preserve the win. And that they go pass crazy when behind trying to catch up.

There IS undeniably a tendency to do that, but I think it has less of an impact on the stats than you might think, over the course of the season.

If it were true that McCarthy was running more when we were ahead, Id expect to see a higher pass/lower run ratio when ahead than when we were tied with the other team. But Im not seeing that (at least, this year with the Packers).

I haven't looked at the last couple of games, but prior to the last two McCarthy was running the ball at the exact same pass/run ratio when the Packers were tied as when ahead during games (based on the splits information available on ESPN, and it included removing ARs runs out of the mix, just looking at passes and RB carries).

McCarthy has done a reasonable job of keeping a balanced offense this year. But in those games where he hasnt, all 4 of those games have been losses. And Im at a loss to explain such a result without coming to the conclusion that statistically, there IS a correlation between pass/run ratios and wins/losses.

edit: I'm sure there are other correlations, too (team that turns the ball over less/forces opponent to turn over the ball more = wins is probably a pretty good correlation), but in each of those cases, you should strive to achieve the effects that correlate to a win.

And in this case, it means we should STRIVE for a more balanced attack, rather than a one-dimensional passing game.

end edit


Now, if I could just get you Maddenites to just realize that REAL football is more complex than a video game... lol. Here, let me fill in the emoticon for you... :ahole:
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